Post by MrBlarney on Aug 30, 2009 0:06:29 GMT -8
2009-08-29/30
ATTENTION (10:28:03 PM): Buddy Chat session .
ATTENTION (10:28:07 PM): Buddy Chat session .
BrendanAshton (10:28:08 PM) has entered the room.
blazingdunedain (10:28:08 PM) has entered the room.
MYi Qwerty (10:28:08 PM) has entered the room.
ATTENTION (10:28:08 PM): Buddy Chat session initiated.
MYi Qwerty (10:28:14 PM): Whoa.
BrendanAshton (10:28:16 PM): alright
BrendanAshton (10:28:18 PM): WE NEED A NAME
BrendanAshton (10:28:29 PM): hrrrm, guess should bring dune up to speed
blazingdunedain (10:28:33 PM): lol
MYi Qwerty (10:28:40 PM): I'll let you do that while I finish preparing my meal
BrendanAshton (10:28:43 PM): basically it's a cyberpunk theme
BrendanAshton (10:28:44 PM): sure go nuts
BrendanAshton (10:28:55 PM): generic mishmash of infidel's whim
BrendanAshton (10:29:05 PM): all players have the capacity for working with cyberspace
BrendanAshton (10:29:09 PM): the setting will mainly be that
BrendanAshton (10:29:22 PM): the mechanics will work with respect to real time
BrendanAshton (10:29:32 PM): instant seers, vigs, traps, and more
blazingdunedain (10:29:39 PM): nice
BrendanAshton (10:29:39 PM): the trick is there are windows
BrendanAshton (10:29:41 PM): for example
BrendanAshton (10:29:45 PM): I might make my action
BrendanAshton (10:29:52 PM): to put out a trap from 8pm to 10pm
BrendanAshton (10:30:06 PM): someone using a certain action during that time may get tracked
BrendanAshton (10:30:08 PM): etc.
BrendanAshton (10:30:21 PM): information gleaned is instant and can be acted on
BrendanAshton (10:30:32 PM): there will be day close still and resolving then
BrendanAshton (10:30:40 PM): but play will occur throughout the day
BrendanAshton (10:30:44 PM): and not realy on actually BEING online at the time
BrendanAshton (10:30:49 PM): rely*
BrendanAshton (10:31:02 PM): you could do a lot still even if you can't be in the "right timezone"
BrendanAshton (10:31:28 PM): oh, and from this point on you're sworn to secrecy!
blazingdunedain (10:31:36 PM): well it seems like there is an advantage to that
blazingdunedain (10:31:38 PM): and of cource
blazingdunedain (10:31:41 PM): *course
BrendanAshton (10:32:32 PM): so yeah
BrendanAshton (10:32:36 PM): we need a name!
BrendanAshton (10:32:45 PM): so that blarney can update the OP and also add a hosting forum
blazingdunedain (10:33:08 PM): hmmmmm
BrendanAshton (10:33:17 PM): there will be the iconic megacorps, free thinkers / hackers, baddies etc.
BrendanAshton (10:33:37 PM): high tech and low life, no fantasy trappings ala shadowrun
BrendanAshton (10:33:47 PM): fluff and goals will be based around cyberspace turf war sorta
blazingdunedain (10:34:05 PM): phallaspace turf wars
blazingdunedain (10:34:08 PM):
BrendanAshton (10:35:47 PM): horrible
BrendanAshton (10:35:48 PM): you're fired
blazingdunedain (10:35:51 PM): I know
MYi Qwerty (10:35:54 PM): BOO GET OFF THE STAGE
BrendanAshton (10:35:57 PM): haha
MYi Qwerty (10:35:59 PM): -_-;;
blazingdunedain (10:36:01 PM): lol
BrendanAshton (10:36:07 PM): I think blarney is on the right path
BrendanAshton (10:36:13 PM): with the edgy/extreme type name
BrendanAshton (10:36:22 PM): european loaned 80s cyberpunk style
BrendanAshton (10:36:43 PM): PHALLEKTICA or such
MYi Qwerty (10:37:06 PM): The other suggestion was to pull a nonsense 6-word latin phrase that has the acronym PHALLA
blazingdunedain (10:37:15 PM): lol
BrendanAshton (10:37:17 PM): oooo
BrendanAshton (10:37:22 PM): P.H.A.L.L.A.
BrendanAshton (10:37:23 PM): let me seee
BrendanAshton (10:37:51 PM): Personified Holographic Avatar -...
blazingdunedain (10:38:12 PM): Legend
MYi Qwerty (10:38:18 PM): Logical Labyrinth Assembly?
BrendanAshton (10:38:22 PM): working with that, thinking of an acronym that describes the "whole system"
BrendanAshton (10:38:26 PM): how the cyberspace works
blazingdunedain (10:38:38 PM): Algorithim at the end
BrendanAshton (10:38:48 PM): Architecture could also work
blazingdunedain (10:39:07 PM): true
BrendanAshton (10:39:18 PM): yeah, let's come up with a good one that fits PHALLA
BrendanAshton (10:39:24 PM): that describes "the matrix" of this world
MYi Qwerty (10:39:25 PM): We could try to shoehorn in some mythological names
MYi Qwerty (10:39:32 PM): like Lazarus Architecture
BrendanAshton (10:39:40 PM): well the direction I was going I was thinking technobabble
MYi Qwerty (10:39:41 PM): or Laplace Algorithm
BrendanAshton (10:39:51 PM): 80s style "make up a futuristic could-be-possible" name
BrendanAshton (10:40:04 PM): plugging in a random name is cheating ;D
BrendanAshton (10:40:11 PM): cause you don't have to justify it
blazingdunedain (10:40:31 PM): psh, name the big bad Lazarus
blazingdunedain (10:40:35 PM): and it's justified
blazingdunedain (10:40:36 PM):
BrendanAshton (10:40:37 PM): Lattice is a good L word
MYi Qwerty (10:40:37 PM): historical/mythological significance could justify it!
BrendanAshton (10:40:51 PM): that's the cheating that I mean! ;D
BrendanAshton (10:41:00 PM): LASERRRRRRR
BrendanAshton (10:41:01 PM): lol
blazingdunedain (10:41:04 PM): lol
MYi Qwerty (10:41:07 PM): hahaha
BrendanAshton (10:41:17 PM): totally 80s cyberpunk
blazingdunedain (10:41:26 PM): needs a z tho
BrendanAshton (10:41:34 PM): very much so
BrendanAshton (10:41:48 PM): Laser Lattice Array
BrendanAshton (10:41:50 PM): lololololol
blazingdunedain (10:41:54 PM): hahahaha
MYi Qwerty (10:41:56 PM): hahahaha
BrendanAshton (10:41:57 PM): the worst part
BrendanAshton (10:42:01 PM): is that that actually makes sense
BrendanAshton (10:42:04 PM): for "virtual space"
BrendanAshton (10:42:06 PM): D:
MYi Qwerty (10:42:19 PM): Lattice Array is so...
MYi Qwerty (10:42:29 PM): *shrug*
BrendanAshton (10:42:31 PM): not compatible yeah
BrendanAshton (10:42:35 PM): but still!
BrendanAshton (10:42:46 PM): along those lines is what I'm thinking
MYi Qwerty (10:44:39 PM): (man, I'm totally imagining a futuristic cyberpunk GiTS-esque anime right now. )
BrendanAshton (10:44:49 PM): (good!)
blazingdunedain (10:44:53 PM): lol
BrendanAshton (10:45:00 PM): thats part of the mishmash
BrendanAshton (10:45:13 PM): Laplacian Lattice Architecture
MYi Qwerty (10:45:59 PM): oho.
MYi Qwerty (10:46:09 PM): Howabout using a word like "Levity"
BrendanAshton (10:46:28 PM): how would it fit though?
blazingdunedain (10:46:31 PM): levity logic assembly?
BrendanAshton (10:46:41 PM): or am I misunderstanding the word
MYi Qwerty (10:46:50 PM): I think it means 'able to be changed'?
BrendanAshton (10:46:53 PM): this is SERIOUS BUSINESS SYSTEM
MYi Qwerty (10:47:05 PM): not as in "lighthearted" kind of levity
BrendanAshton (10:47:09 PM): oh
BrendanAshton (10:47:15 PM): I only know it as not serious
MYi Qwerty (10:47:22 PM): Though it could be easily misunderstood
blazingdunedain (10:47:30 PM): lie to the players in the game name
blazingdunedain (10:47:32 PM): classy
BrendanAshton (10:47:34 PM): haha
blazingdunedain (10:47:48 PM): you thought this was light hearted?
BrendanAshton (10:47:53 PM): "Levity Architecture: You die in cyberspace, you die in real life!"
BrendanAshton (10:47:54 PM): D:
blazingdunedain (10:48:01 PM): fuck you, this is cyberphalla
MYi Qwerty (10:48:11 PM): It's like the MATRIX
BrendanAshton (10:48:18 PM): this IS the matrix
BrendanAshton (10:48:25 PM): which is why the name should be "serious"
BrendanAshton (10:48:29 PM): because it's pretentious in design
BrendanAshton (10:48:34 PM): and spoiled by hackers
blazingdunedain (10:48:34 PM): lol
BrendanAshton (10:48:38 PM): know what I mean?
BrendanAshton (10:48:49 PM): it's something that gets soiled
MYi Qwerty (10:49:02 PM): Lunar Lupine Assembly
MYi Qwerty (10:49:08 PM): ... it's powered by werewolves.
BrendanAshton (10:49:09 PM): TAKING THIS BABY TO THE MOON
BrendanAshton (10:49:20 PM): totally driving the bus the wrong direction MrB
BrendanAshton (10:49:21 PM): :-D
MYi Qwerty (10:49:27 PM): *honk honk*
blazingdunedain (10:49:27 PM): cyberpunk werewolves
BrendanAshton (10:49:29 PM): hahahah
BrendanAshton (10:49:39 PM): oh god, stop /crty
BrendanAshton (10:49:41 PM): /cry
blazingdunedain (10:49:42 PM): when you
blazingdunedain (10:49:47 PM): re online
blazingdunedain (10:49:52 PM): and it's the full moon
blazingdunedain (10:49:57 PM): D:
BrendanAshton (10:50:07 PM): I kinda like Laplacian, I may steal that bit Blarney
BrendanAshton (10:50:19 PM): I'm sure we can make that work with something for the first three...
BrendanAshton (10:50:30 PM): maybe even a PHA/LLA
BrendanAshton (10:50:47 PM): Personalized Holographic Avatar / Laplacian Lattice Architecture
BrendanAshton (10:50:56 PM): to reflect the nature of avatar and scene
MYi Qwerty (10:50:56 PM): Yeah, that's the best idea running so far...
BrendanAshton (10:50:58 PM): user and system
blazingdunedain (10:51:06 PM): oh nice
BrendanAshton (10:51:06 PM): hacker and IC
BrendanAshton (10:51:22 PM): any better suggestions? nows the time to ammend
blazingdunedain (10:51:23 PM): i'll brb
BrendanAshton (10:51:24 PM): or going with that hehe
blazingdunedain (10:51:33 PM): (go with it)
BrendanAshton (10:51:37 PM): MrB?
MYi Qwerty (10:51:41 PM): I'm good with it
BrendanAshton (10:51:44 PM): alright
BrendanAshton (10:51:46 PM): make it so!
BrendanAshton (10:51:49 PM): (engage)
blazingdunedain (10:54:35 PM): back
BrendanAshton (10:55:52 PM): alright
BrendanAshton (10:56:07 PM): we only have one role defined so far
BrendanAshton (10:56:14 PM): a village idiot twist
blazingdunedain (10:56:35 PM): this is the role people will scream about?
BrendanAshton (10:56:38 PM): yes
blazingdunedain (10:56:43 PM): :-D
BrendanAshton (10:56:49 PM): win condition
BrendanAshton (10:56:51 PM): be voted out
BrendanAshton (10:56:56 PM): no powers
BrendanAshton (10:57:03 PM): they just wish to become one with the system
BrendanAshton (10:57:06 PM): aka, be voted out
blazingdunedain (10:57:17 PM): what's the twist?
BrendanAshton (10:57:25 PM): the fluff for the vote will be nullification through the cyberspace mechanisms
BrendanAshton (10:57:30 PM): when they get voted out
BrendanAshton (10:57:32 PM): secret win condition!
BrendanAshton (10:57:35 PM): they become a monster
BrendanAshton (10:57:39 PM): a ghost in the machine
BrendanAshton (10:57:44 PM): they become vig immune
BrendanAshton (10:57:46 PM): get super boosted powers
BrendanAshton (10:57:49 PM): and win condition is as SK
BrendanAshton (10:57:54 PM): the catch
BrendanAshton (10:57:56 PM): if they don't win the vote
BrendanAshton (10:58:00 PM): they die
BrendanAshton (10:58:03 PM): from then on
BrendanAshton (10:58:18 PM): they are dependent on the system now
blazingdunedain (10:58:23 PM): and they don't know about the second win condition?
blazingdunedain (10:58:25 PM): ouch
BrendanAshton (10:58:28 PM): not until it happens
BrendanAshton (10:58:29 PM): :-D
BrendanAshton (10:58:36 PM): then they become a monster of an SK
blazingdunedain (10:58:37 PM): it's evil
blazingdunedain (10:58:42 PM): but doable
BrendanAshton (10:58:42 PM): that will have to fight and tear
BrendanAshton (10:58:45 PM): to keep going
BrendanAshton (10:58:51 PM): as I explained to MrB
BrendanAshton (10:58:55 PM): the best SK roles for the SK
BrendanAshton (10:58:57 PM): are ones that are super tough
BrendanAshton (10:59:03 PM): but oh so interesting
BrendanAshton (10:59:08 PM): they have fun win or lose
BrendanAshton (10:59:18 PM): and they should have to work their asses off
blazingdunedain (10:59:20 PM): yeah, I'll take SK over any role
BrendanAshton (10:59:22 PM): manipulating in order to win
BrendanAshton (10:59:36 PM): if you can win as the SK by just laying low
blazingdunedain (10:59:37 PM): in just about any decently constructed game
BrendanAshton (10:59:40 PM): and putting in your kill
BrendanAshton (10:59:42 PM): thats very meh
MYi Qwerty (10:59:49 PM): volcanichq.proboards.com/index.cgi Subforum is up. We can post the chat log in there, I guess
BrendanAshton (10:59:53 PM): give them powers and weaknesses :-D
BrendanAshton (10:59:56 PM): cool
BrendanAshton (11:00:03 PM): dune, have you ever registered on the HQ?
BrendanAshton (11:00:07 PM): do so so you can get access
blazingdunedain (11:00:17 PM): I'm already on there
BrendanAshton (11:00:20 PM): awesome :-D
blazingdunedain (11:00:21 PM): for phalla of the stick
BrendanAshton (11:00:27 PM): I see probably on a game with dacvin
BrendanAshton (11:00:31 PM): excellent, that was easy
blazingdunedain (11:01:24 PM): yup
MYi Qwerty (11:01:25 PM): Yeah, the village idiot --> serial killer idea is excellent,
MYi Qwerty (11:01:30 PM): though I think it's too tough
MYi Qwerty (11:01:43 PM): I'd much rather it be a survivor --> serial killer role
blazingdunedain (11:01:55 PM): it depends on how you play the VI
blazingdunedain (11:02:04 PM): take GtC in UA
blazingdunedain (11:02:14 PM): village idiot(with a twist)
blazingdunedain (11:02:42 PM): but he didn't try to get voted away
MYi Qwerty (11:03:12 PM): Actually, he did early on
MYi Qwerty (11:03:34 PM): He was very insistent on being voted out the first day.
blazingdunedain (11:03:46 PM): which meant he wouldn't
MYi Qwerty (11:03:51 PM): To which people said 'Village idiot ignore him'
BrendanAshton (11:04:28 PM): hehe
BrendanAshton (11:04:42 PM): yeah, the main issue is that if the village idiot manages to get voted out day 1
BrendanAshton (11:04:48 PM): then it will be harder for them to win
BrendanAshton (11:04:56 PM): the ideal situation is for them to last a couple days first
BrendanAshton (11:05:02 PM): but they won't know/try that necessarily
BrendanAshton (11:05:13 PM): so it's gonna be tough, unless we can find a way to encourage that
BrendanAshton (11:05:16 PM): we couldn't come up with anything yet
blazingdunedain (11:05:27 PM): still day one village idiots plays are pretty obvious
MYi Qwerty (11:05:28 PM): Yeah, that was my main issue/concern
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BrendanAshton (11:05:54 PM): I think the odds of it playing out in a way that at least gives them a chance
BrendanAshton (11:05:56 PM): is likely
BrendanAshton (11:06:07 PM): getting voted out day 1
BrendanAshton (11:06:09 PM): has a bonus
BrendanAshton (11:06:13 PM): they are assured a chance of winning
blazingdunedain (11:06:15 PM): yeah, it's a role that takes a lot of luck
BrendanAshton (11:06:19 PM): as opposed to getting voted out midgame
BrendanAshton (11:06:24 PM): but maybe getting vigged before then etc.
blazingdunedain (11:06:35 PM): true
MYi Qwerty (11:06:46 PM): Maybe some power accumulation mechanic
BrendanAshton (11:06:52 PM): basically, if they go for the VI fast and win it
BrendanAshton (11:06:54 PM): they'll go uber mode
MYi Qwerty (11:07:00 PM): where they gain latent powers that 'burst' when they get voted out
BrendanAshton (11:07:01 PM): and go out in a blaze of glory
BrendanAshton (11:07:03 PM): worst case scenario
MYi Qwerty (11:07:18 PM): Except that the latent powers don't end up with others... they end up within the player himself
MYi Qwerty (11:07:25 PM): contrary to expectations
blazingdunedain (11:07:27 PM): maybe they want to be voted out after a certain day
blazingdunedain (11:07:42 PM): put it in the win condition
BrendanAshton (11:07:45 PM): hrmmm
BrendanAshton (11:07:47 PM): maybe the VI fluff
blazingdunedain (11:07:52 PM): just to make their life a little easier
BrendanAshton (11:08:05 PM): is that they want to control the power of whatever exactly the vote is
BrendanAshton (11:08:08 PM): kinda as already mentioned
BrendanAshton (11:08:19 PM): but we propose it that it's not the END for them like a normal VI
BrendanAshton (11:08:32 PM): the powers gained are based on how long the game has gone on
BrendanAshton (11:08:34 PM): etc.
BrendanAshton (11:08:46 PM): they just don't know win condition and how much it will change them until they do
BrendanAshton (11:08:48 PM): ?
MYi Qwerty (11:09:23 PM): I think the 'latent powers' idea might work...?
BrendanAshton (11:09:33 PM): note that my mechanics mean that "that would be a shame if they were removed but it won't hurt the numbers" is prevalent still
BrendanAshton (11:09:36 PM): they have their kills
BrendanAshton (11:09:40 PM): but they only have kills / are around
BrendanAshton (11:09:42 PM): if they eat the vote
BrendanAshton (11:09:45 PM): nulling a kill guaranteed
BrendanAshton (11:09:52 PM): so it's kinda a redirecting of the vote
blazingdunedain (11:10:00 PM): oh nice
blazingdunedain (11:10:05 PM): I didn't even think of that
BrendanAshton (11:10:06 PM): so even if they die early, the numbers won't skew
BrendanAshton (11:10:19 PM): basically, this is what happens when they "awaken"
BrendanAshton (11:10:23 PM): they will be publicly outed
BrendanAshton (11:10:25 PM): OMG VOTE IMMUNE
BrendanAshton (11:10:28 PM): then they will get their PM
BrendanAshton (11:10:33 PM): OH FUCK IM EXPOSED AND A SK
BrendanAshton (11:10:37 PM): then they get their uber powers
BrendanAshton (11:10:39 PM): and the catch
BrendanAshton (11:10:42 PM): dance monkies, dance
blazingdunedain (11:10:47 PM): lol
BrendanAshton (11:10:50 PM): that is the funnest SK role
MYi Qwerty (11:10:56 PM): Mmm, monkeys
BrendanAshton (11:11:13 PM): I had a blast manipulating the fuck out of three equal factions
BrendanAshton (11:11:14 PM): as Lu Bu
BrendanAshton (11:11:30 PM): I had to tapdance like a mother fucker
BrendanAshton (11:11:40 PM): last SK role I designed also enjoyed it even though they lost
blazingdunedain (11:11:44 PM): lol, rolling hills
BrendanAshton (11:11:47 PM): I think this will work out
blazingdunedain (11:11:51 PM): I was partially vig immune
blazingdunedain (11:11:54 PM): outed sk
blazingdunedain (11:12:04 PM): and I managed to 'not lose'
BrendanAshton (11:12:08 PM): hehe
BrendanAshton (11:12:24 PM): surviving to win as the SK is not necessary imo
BrendanAshton (11:12:30 PM): it's a crazy role that can go any which way
BrendanAshton (11:12:35 PM): luck is always going to be involved
BrendanAshton (11:12:37 PM): make it great while it lasts
blazingdunedain (11:12:45 PM): lol
blazingdunedain (11:12:56 PM): I sold my kill to the village
BrendanAshton (11:13:00 PM): I don't think anyone has designed it to the vote in such a way though
BrendanAshton (11:13:04 PM): to ensure shenanigans basically
MYi Qwerty (11:13:12 PM): Shenanigans!
blazingdunedain (11:13:15 PM): yay
BrendanAshton (11:13:21 PM): alright
MYi Qwerty (11:13:21 PM): Yeah, it's a great idea
BrendanAshton (11:13:27 PM): so, we have to iron out general mechanics
BrendanAshton (11:13:32 PM): everyone will have options
BrendanAshton (11:13:39 PM): specials will have more options, better chances, etc.
BrendanAshton (11:13:54 PM): mafia type groups will have group powers (kills basically) on top
BrendanAshton (11:14:07 PM): it's basically going to be a game of organization and manipulation
BrendanAshton (11:14:13 PM): coordinating orders
BrendanAshton (11:14:16 PM): trying to piece things together
BrendanAshton (11:14:39 PM): some powers will work with windows
BrendanAshton (11:14:41 PM): where you can set traps
BrendanAshton (11:14:43 PM): or traces
BrendanAshton (11:14:47 PM): at certain time periods
BrendanAshton (11:14:51 PM): 1 hour, or 2 hours, wide
blazingdunedain (11:14:51 PM): right
BrendanAshton (11:14:54 PM): dunno
BrendanAshton (11:14:59 PM): whatever balances we can tweak
BrendanAshton (11:15:06 PM): then there are the active actions
BrendanAshton (11:15:11 PM): hacking, traps, etc.
BrendanAshton (11:15:18 PM): trying to gain information
BrendanAshton (11:15:22 PM): stop people
BrendanAshton (11:15:24 PM): attack people
MYi Qwerty (11:15:47 PM): Oh, how about variable powers. So someone with a 'vote null' could set up their power to null a specific person or all votes made in a certain half-hour period?
BrendanAshton (11:15:48 PM): most of it won't result in deaths
BrendanAshton (11:15:57 PM): we want deaths to be (relatively) deterministic, not random
BrendanAshton (11:16:05 PM): exactly MrB
BrendanAshton (11:16:09 PM): blackouts
BrendanAshton (11:16:11 PM): erasures
BrendanAshton (11:16:11 PM): etc.
BrendanAshton (11:16:14 PM): actually...
BrendanAshton (11:16:19 PM): the window of knocking out votes
BrendanAshton (11:16:20 PM): is brilliant
blazingdunedain (11:16:26 PM): yeah I like it
BrendanAshton (11:16:32 PM): because you can't completely control it
blazingdunedain (11:16:36 PM): maybe a powerspike
BrendanAshton (11:16:40 PM): you can place it trying to tweak it best
blazingdunedain (11:16:45 PM): votes are nulled for thirty minutes
BrendanAshton (11:16:45 PM): but you can't arbitrarily veto
MYi Qwerty (11:17:34 PM): Vote multipliers/dividers/subtracters/adders are the easiest to create
BrendanAshton (11:17:42 PM): I'll have to build vote tracking into the app
BrendanAshton (11:17:52 PM): so that we can have these powers worked with programmatically
BrendanAshton (11:18:02 PM): basically a spreadsheet like how we did PoRD updates
MYi Qwerty (11:18:05 PM): Yeah
BrendanAshton (11:18:09 PM): fields for the target and time of each persons vote
MYi Qwerty (11:18:23 PM): Action seers could work in pretty much the same way
BrendanAshton (11:18:24 PM): actually, I could have it harvest :-)
BrendanAshton (11:18:28 PM): and we could manually review/edit names
BrendanAshton (11:18:31 PM): to fit the official ones
BrendanAshton (11:18:33 PM): :-D
BrendanAshton (11:18:34 PM): yes
BrendanAshton (11:18:36 PM): we will do that
blazingdunedain (11:18:39 PM): lol
MYi Qwerty (11:18:46 PM): Action nulls, too!
BrendanAshton (11:19:00 PM): yep
BrendanAshton (11:19:04 PM): excellent
MYi Qwerty (11:19:10 PM): Yeah, we need to emphasize strict voting criteria to make counting easiest
BrendanAshton (11:19:14 PM): alright
BrendanAshton (11:19:19 PM): so everyone is getting the idea now yes?
blazingdunedain (11:19:25 PM): I think so
BrendanAshton (11:19:26 PM): we need mechanics to fit this kind of thing
MYi Qwerty (11:19:27 PM): make sure people format things correctly, etc.
BrendanAshton (11:19:33 PM): instant vigs? very rare/hard/risky
BrendanAshton (11:19:37 PM): instant seering of bits of data?
BrendanAshton (11:19:40 PM): much more common
blazingdunedain (11:19:46 PM): insta seering
BrendanAshton (11:19:46 PM): traps/IC that nullify?
BrendanAshton (11:19:48 PM): etc.
blazingdunedain (11:19:54 PM): maybe they get download updates
BrendanAshton (11:19:55 PM): yeah, you can garner bits of data throughout the day
blazingdunedain (11:20:00 PM): full info takes a day
BrendanAshton (11:20:01 PM): organized players can put together the pieces
MYi Qwerty (11:20:10 PM): Yeah, 'data transfer' seers
BrendanAshton (11:20:12 PM): yeah, that would be a "full seer"
BrendanAshton (11:20:20 PM): I'm talking the lower level village type stuff
blazingdunedain (11:20:24 PM): ah
BrendanAshton (11:20:27 PM): like "____ took an action"
BrendanAshton (11:20:34 PM): when you setup a trace on 8pm to 9pm
BrendanAshton (11:20:34 PM): etc.
BrendanAshton (11:20:55 PM): it should be balanced that one person acting alone cannot garner enough data easily
BrendanAshton (11:20:59 PM): to put together the story
BrendanAshton (11:21:05 PM): but multiples could possibly
blazingdunedain (11:21:05 PM): yeah
BrendanAshton (11:21:14 PM): different types of traces, etc.
BrendanAshton (11:21:23 PM): you're only allowed one window per day
BrendanAshton (11:21:32 PM): coordinate and you can get better info
BrendanAshton (11:21:41 PM): two traces tell you who took action, and on who!
BrendanAshton (11:21:44 PM): yadda yadda
blazingdunedain (11:21:48 PM): nice
MYi Qwerty (11:21:51 PM): Yep. I like the idea of power levels and skill mastery
BrendanAshton (11:22:04 PM): the village will be hackers, fluffwise
BrendanAshton (11:22:07 PM): it's cyberpunk after all
blazingdunedain (11:22:09 PM): maybe have it equiment based?
MYi Qwerty (11:22:10 PM): where there's a number of different skill trees representing different abilities
BrendanAshton (11:22:12 PM): suits could be the mafia
blazingdunedain (11:22:18 PM): since they're hackers
blazingdunedain (11:22:30 PM): you get a nicer PC
MYi Qwerty (11:22:34 PM): and each person needs skill mastery to use more than just the basic skills.
BrendanAshton (11:22:36 PM): brainbox*
BrendanAshton (11:22:37 PM): hehe
BrendanAshton (11:22:38 PM): yeah
BrendanAshton (11:22:55 PM): chips that enhance your reception/sync with PHA/LLA
BrendanAshton (11:22:59 PM): but also risk burnout
MYi Qwerty (11:23:00 PM): Each skill has two different properties: time window and group targeting
MYi Qwerty (11:23:33 PM): time window could be something like 30 min/1 hour/full day
MYi Qwerty (11:23:40 PM): and group could be 1/5/all players
BrendanAshton (11:23:41 PM): yep, I want there to be basically two types of actions
BrendanAshton (11:23:44 PM): things that cause an effect
BrendanAshton (11:23:48 PM): and others that are like casting out nets
BrendanAshton (11:24:07 PM): hrmm, a focus setting basically?
MYi Qwerty (11:24:11 PM): and depending on aptitude/equipment, different combinations are available
BrendanAshton (11:24:13 PM): get more detail on fewer targets
blazingdunedain (11:24:14 PM): nets would be low leveled village type stuff
MYi Qwerty (11:24:51 PM): certain abilities might also have a property of 'success'
BrendanAshton (11:24:52 PM): I had the idea of trying to enhance villager coordination with received info from the host system
BrendanAshton (11:24:57 PM): after seeing how poeple tried to organize in FE
BrendanAshton (11:25:02 PM): even though that part was rather basic and limited
BrendanAshton (11:25:06 PM): that is going to BE the game now
blazingdunedain (11:25:15 PM): nice
MYi Qwerty (11:25:18 PM): Actually, all skill trees could have that as a third property ' success probability'
BrendanAshton (11:25:28 PM): instead of something simple like "oh, so and so should be hurt, put one guy on that to finish him off"
MYi Qwerty (11:25:31 PM): so that you need more points to hack properly
BrendanAshton (11:25:35 PM): and "so and so attacked a player, lolmafia"
BrendanAshton (11:25:42 PM): something a little more involved and intrigue
blazingdunedain (11:25:53 PM): yeah
blazingdunedain (11:26:16 PM): should we have players be able to take somesort of real world actions?
BrendanAshton (11:26:29 PM): it would be mostly a matter of fluff likely
BrendanAshton (11:26:31 PM): but yes
BrendanAshton (11:26:43 PM): maybe the vig
BrendanAshton (11:26:47 PM): has to trace someone online
BrendanAshton (11:26:51 PM): and can kill them in meatspace
BrendanAshton (11:26:54 PM): only after they traced their location
BrendanAshton (11:26:55 PM): etc.
MYi Qwerty (11:26:56 PM): (ninjas!)
blazingdunedain (11:26:59 PM): lol
MYi Qwerty (11:27:23 PM): Yeah, that's a good idea for fluff
BrendanAshton (11:27:25 PM): effectively that's just fluff
BrendanAshton (11:27:48 PM): how do you see the focus mechanic working exactly then?
BrendanAshton (11:27:59 PM): let's say I have a target trace program running
BrendanAshton (11:28:08 PM): what do you think should happen on different settings?
MYi Qwerty (11:28:25 PM): Sliders/buttons for each option/property
BrendanAshton (11:28:32 PM): remember that the windows are slim so it takes quite a few people to catch everything
MYi Qwerty (11:28:50 PM): Certain amount of cost in points to set up each property at each level
BrendanAshton (11:29:06 PM): also, set limits on player counts don't scale as the game diminishes
MYi Qwerty (11:29:25 PM): and a limit of maximum value in each property based on individual ability
BrendanAshton (11:29:31 PM): so like if it was set to 1, I would randomly trace one player in the valid window?
BrendanAshton (11:29:41 PM): and there is no benefit to setting 1 other than I had no choice?
BrendanAshton (11:29:51 PM): if I could do more I would?
BrendanAshton (11:29:53 PM): skill based?
MYi Qwerty (11:29:55 PM): Random/Targeted could be another property
BrendanAshton (11:30:23 PM): how would targeted be possible
MYi Qwerty (11:31:01 PM): Huh?
BrendanAshton (11:31:09 PM): targeted in what way?
MYi Qwerty (11:31:11 PM): You can either choose to target a random person for free
MYi Qwerty (11:31:28 PM): or a specific person for cost
BrendanAshton (11:31:35 PM): but you're targeting windows
BrendanAshton (11:31:37 PM): not players
MYi Qwerty (11:31:37 PM): More specifics, rising exponential cost
BrendanAshton (11:31:42 PM): the thing we're talking right now
MYi Qwerty (11:31:45 PM): Same for players and windows
blazingdunedain (11:31:56 PM): so if you target a window
MYi Qwerty (11:31:59 PM): specific window (in half-hour increments) or random windows
BrendanAshton (11:31:59 PM): I am wanting more the meta value
BrendanAshton (11:32:01 PM): ala ALPHALLA
BrendanAshton (11:32:06 PM): of stalking / predicting your target
blazingdunedain (11:32:07 PM): you find out that someone took an action
BrendanAshton (11:32:14 PM): instead of being able to send in their name automatic
blazingdunedain (11:32:18 PM): or a player and find out who they targetted?
BrendanAshton (11:32:28 PM): well those would be different powers
BrendanAshton (11:32:32 PM): and of different types altogether
BrendanAshton (11:32:35 PM): if you target a person
BrendanAshton (11:32:38 PM): thats explicitly not a window
BrendanAshton (11:32:45 PM): a window, you don't know who is going to be there
BrendanAshton (11:32:47 PM): that's the point
blazingdunedain (11:32:50 PM): yeah
BrendanAshton (11:32:56 PM): you're trying to gather intel
BrendanAshton (11:33:01 PM): you could target windows
blazingdunedain (11:33:05 PM): i'm trying to figure out what mrB was suggesting
BrendanAshton (11:33:07 PM): trying to catch someone in particular
BrendanAshton (11:33:14 PM): predicting when they order, based on posts
BrendanAshton (11:33:16 PM): and timezone
BrendanAshton (11:33:16 PM): etc.
blazingdunedain (11:33:19 PM): with spending points
BrendanAshton (11:33:24 PM): which is the kind of meta thinking I would like to encourage :-)
BrendanAshton (11:33:33 PM): I want people to feel like hackers/sleuths
blazingdunedain (11:33:37 PM): lol
MYi Qwerty (11:33:40 PM): With spending 'points', you can distribute your powers.
BrendanAshton (11:33:46 PM): with a lot of unknowns and spotchy data
BrendanAshton (11:33:55 PM): that can be incriminating when held against other random data
MYi Qwerty (11:33:55 PM): Like, target one person for a long period, or a group of people for a short period
blazingdunedain (11:34:27 PM): ah
MYi Qwerty (11:34:28 PM): Most people will have low power in all aptitudes, and so will have to rely on each other to get some real intel
BrendanAshton (11:34:35 PM): are you talking about always choosing players AND window?
BrendanAshton (11:34:56 PM): cause I was talking you pick a window, and ALL that do whatever is being traced within that time are eligible
BrendanAshton (11:35:02 PM): there is no targeted player at all
MYi Qwerty (11:35:05 PM): Not necessary - one might be able to choose 'random' as an option
BrendanAshton (11:35:25 PM): this means a lot of expected traces towards vote close
MYi Qwerty (11:35:26 PM): Well, people who REALLY suck might only be able to look at one person for a period of time
BrendanAshton (11:35:29 PM): which means a lot more early day actions
BrendanAshton (11:35:34 PM): which means, expected of people
BrendanAshton (11:35:38 PM): so people will trap NOT vote close
BrendanAshton (11:35:41 PM): /psyduck
blazingdunedain (11:35:46 PM): hahhaha
BrendanAshton (11:35:57 PM): like I said, I'm hoping to blow minds
blazingdunedain (11:35:58 PM): there is going to be so much crazy meta going on
MYi Qwerty (11:36:06 PM): rather than one person for the whole day or everyone for a limited period
BrendanAshton (11:36:20 PM): and conveniently, not many individuals will have enough data on their own to "know" anything
BrendanAshton (11:36:26 PM): so they have to trust, PARANOIA TIME
MYi Qwerty (11:36:31 PM): If you think of it as a 2-D plane
BrendanAshton (11:36:38 PM): oh I get ya
MYi Qwerty (11:36:39 PM): the villagers have a small radius of power
BrendanAshton (11:36:45 PM): I just wasn't thinking of them being tied at all originally
MYi Qwerty (11:36:46 PM): and the specials have a large radius of power
BrendanAshton (11:36:52 PM): and not sure I want to combine them like that
MYi Qwerty (11:36:52 PM): with the axes of people and windows
BrendanAshton (11:37:04 PM): I like there being slice targets
BrendanAshton (11:37:05 PM): and trace targets
BrendanAshton (11:37:10 PM): (time window, versus player target)
MYi Qwerty (11:37:15 PM): You can also set that up
BrendanAshton (11:37:19 PM): you might have a trace program you can toss on someone
BrendanAshton (11:37:22 PM): fluff wise, it makes more sense
MYi Qwerty (11:37:26 PM): so that some people are more apt at one type
BrendanAshton (11:37:29 PM): than arbitrary axis that you can play with
blazingdunedain (11:37:30 PM): venn diagrams of village power
MYi Qwerty (11:37:33 PM): and others are more apt at the other type
BrendanAshton (11:37:34 PM): a special, sure
BrendanAshton (11:37:44 PM): but I am thinking of the "base" for villagers right now more
MYi Qwerty (11:37:47 PM): and the REAL WIZARDS can do both, with a wide range of customizability
BrendanAshton (11:37:48 PM): so that everything we build on top fits
BrendanAshton (11:37:51 PM): know what I mean?
MYi Qwerty (11:38:13 PM): I think I know what you mean, I just have a different idea of what 'base' means
BrendanAshton (11:38:25 PM): man, me and blarney have talked so much game theory design over the years on AIM........
BrendanAshton (11:38:29 PM): hahahaha
BrendanAshton (11:38:51 PM): "base" means just that, villager level power
BrendanAshton (11:39:00 PM): the combined power of collaborating villagers
MYi Qwerty (11:39:04 PM): I think so brain, but how are we going to get a plastic flamingo in that kind of size?
BrendanAshton (11:39:05 PM): so, things that are not reliable completely
BrendanAshton (11:39:09 PM): like nets and tracers
BrendanAshton (11:39:17 PM): hahahahaha :^:
blazingdunedain (11:39:38 PM): lol
MYi Qwerty (11:39:50 PM): Yeah, I'm thinking villagers just don't have much hacking skill
MYi Qwerty (11:40:05 PM): so you have a third 'axis' of 'skill success' perhaps?
BrendanAshton (11:40:22 PM): fluffwise, they are all hackers
BrendanAshton (11:40:26 PM): even doing this much is "serious"
BrendanAshton (11:40:33 PM): the system isn't trivial to manipulate like this
MYi Qwerty (11:40:34 PM): I'm still on the 'generalizability' kick here
BrendanAshton (11:40:38 PM): the real hardcore hackers are special
blazingdunedain (11:40:42 PM): it's cyberpunk
blazingdunedain (11:41:07 PM): most real hackers looks like pussies compared to these guys
BrendanAshton (11:41:19 PM): also, I like having simple/accessible choices for standard vanillas
MYi Qwerty (11:41:28 PM): I guess another comparison could be to the FF XII licence grid
BrendanAshton (11:41:30 PM): like "here's a tracer program that does ____, you can target someone with it"
BrendanAshton (11:41:38 PM): "here's what you may learn, it may not succeed"
MYi Qwerty (11:41:42 PM): most people don't have a lot of licences
BrendanAshton (11:41:49 PM): instead of giving them too much control where they get overwhelmed
MYi Qwerty (11:41:52 PM): which limits their options appropriately
BrendanAshton (11:42:20 PM): oh, I know what the core stat will be
BrendanAshton (11:42:22 PM): for power level
BrendanAshton (11:42:24 PM): sync ratio
MYi Qwerty (11:42:29 PM): yessss
BrendanAshton (11:42:30 PM): how well they jive with the system
blazingdunedain (11:42:37 PM): nice
BrendanAshton (11:42:39 PM): a special is a high sync ratio
BrendanAshton (11:42:41 PM): thats all
BrendanAshton (11:43:03 PM): oh man I will have fun narrating this
MYi Qwerty (11:43:19 PM): GIANT ROBOTS
blazingdunedain (11:43:28 PM): should we just have powers be basedon on sync ratios?
MYi Qwerty (11:43:28 PM): piloted by angsty teenagers
BrendanAshton (11:43:34 PM): GIANT ROBOTS, putting the PERSONALIZED in PHA
MYi Qwerty (11:43:50 PM): Yeah, powers based on sync ratios...
BrendanAshton (11:43:52 PM): sync ratio will come into play for everyone
BrendanAshton (11:43:59 PM): because all powers have a rate of success
MYi Qwerty (11:43:59 PM): well, sort of
BrendanAshton (11:44:25 PM): also, the options available will be increased, I guess in a tiered sort of way
MYi Qwerty (11:44:26 PM): I guess it depends on how much in terms of 'skill tree' and 'power scales' we want to get into
MYi Qwerty (11:44:31 PM): Yeah
blazingdunedain (11:44:32 PM): yeah
blazingdunedain (11:44:55 PM): should we give more powerful players access to lower level powers?
MYi Qwerty (11:44:59 PM): Yes
MYi Qwerty (11:45:09 PM): Lower-level powers will have higher success
MYi Qwerty (11:45:18 PM): when performed by a high-level player
BrendanAshton (11:45:28 PM): right
BrendanAshton (11:45:46 PM): it could be every power has a difficulty
BrendanAshton (11:45:55 PM): modified by sync ratio by some extent
BrendanAshton (11:46:01 PM): if your chance drops to 0% or below
BrendanAshton (11:46:04 PM): you don't even have it
blazingdunedain (11:46:09 PM): nice
BrendanAshton (11:46:10 PM): we could tier things to work out appropriately
MYi Qwerty (11:46:23 PM): Yep
BrendanAshton (11:46:23 PM): the big manips will be tough even for specials
MYi Qwerty (11:46:38 PM): And certain people will have aptitude towards certain powers
BrendanAshton (11:46:41 PM): I'm noticing a trend in my phallas
MYi Qwerty (11:46:42 PM): to make them easier to use
BrendanAshton (11:46:47 PM): they have a baseline for all players
BrendanAshton (11:46:51 PM): I don't really have vanillagers
BrendanAshton (11:46:59 PM): I usually apply the same rules to mafia
blazingdunedain (11:46:59 PM): they're boring
BrendanAshton (11:47:01 PM): as I do players
MYi Qwerty (11:47:04 PM): Heheh, we're rubbing off on each other
BrendanAshton (11:47:05 PM): such as PoRD
BrendanAshton (11:47:09 PM): heh
blazingdunedain (11:47:16 PM): I got a phonecall
blazingdunedain (11:47:20 PM): I might be back later
BrendanAshton (11:47:21 PM): np
blazingdunedain (11:47:22 PM): or crash
blazingdunedain (11:47:30 PM): depending on how long this takes
BrendanAshton (11:47:59 PM): alright
BrendanAshton (11:48:05 PM): so we should come up with mechanics
MYi Qwerty (11:48:06 PM): no worries, we should be able to post a log or something in the forum
BrendanAshton (11:48:08 PM): most of them "programs"
BrendanAshton (11:48:20 PM): break them down into (a) category and (b) difficulty
BrendanAshton (11:48:21 PM): ?
BrendanAshton (11:48:37 PM): hacking, datamining, etc.
BrendanAshton (11:48:41 PM): countermeasures
MYi Qwerty (11:48:50 PM): I see, yeah
BrendanAshton (11:49:02 PM): you can choose a category to excel at
BrendanAshton (11:49:11 PM): which gives you a mod to the difficulty
BrendanAshton (11:49:16 PM): so a villager
BrendanAshton (11:49:22 PM): will probably mainly just have tools for their specialty
BrendanAshton (11:49:27 PM): other things will practically be out of reach
BrendanAshton (11:49:37 PM): their choice brings the low tiers and maybe the middle
BrendanAshton (11:49:39 PM): into reach
BrendanAshton (11:49:46 PM): a special has higher stats in one or more areas
BrendanAshton (11:49:48 PM): and a higher sync ratio
BrendanAshton (11:49:51 PM): those are our metrics
BrendanAshton (11:49:55 PM): skill points in categories
BrendanAshton (11:49:57 PM): and a sync ratio
BrendanAshton (11:50:00 PM): base it around that
MYi Qwerty (11:50:07 PM): Yep, sounds good to me
BrendanAshton (11:50:18 PM): just need to work out some categories and skills
BrendanAshton (11:50:26 PM): then we can tweak difficulties into things fall into the right place
BrendanAshton (11:50:30 PM): for powers we want available
BrendanAshton (11:50:38 PM): sync ratio will be 0 to 100
BrendanAshton (11:50:47 PM): some villagers may be better than others
BrendanAshton (11:50:51 PM): it will be tiered and then RNGd
BrendanAshton (11:51:04 PM): maybe that's part of what we can do for the VI/SK role
BrendanAshton (11:51:05 PM): :-D
MYi Qwerty (11:51:06 PM): so, like 15...25 for the basic villager or something
BrendanAshton (11:51:12 PM): have it start off as a sync ratio thing
BrendanAshton (11:51:23 PM): make theirs grow a bit each day
MYi Qwerty (11:51:31 PM): SYNC: > 9000!!!!
BrendanAshton (11:51:41 PM): and have their goal be based on succeeding at the meld into the system
BrendanAshton (11:51:49 PM): d100 roll against their sync ratio
BrendanAshton (11:51:54 PM): then they'll be inclined to wait a day or two
BrendanAshton (11:51:55 PM): :-D
BrendanAshton (11:51:58 PM): and then BLAMMO
BrendanAshton (11:52:03 PM): blindsided
MYi Qwerty (11:52:21 PM): Well, d100 vs. 100 - sync ratio
BrendanAshton (11:52:27 PM): :^:
MYi Qwerty (11:52:32 PM): make it harder to improve
MYi Qwerty (11:52:35 PM): after a few days
MYi Qwerty (11:52:42 PM): to encourage takign the vote
BrendanAshton (11:52:52 PM): we could give them an action that increases their ratio
BrendanAshton (11:53:01 PM): and it just has diminishing returns
BrendanAshton (11:53:04 PM): you can't achieve 100
BrendanAshton (11:53:23 PM): have it halve the unsync
BrendanAshton (11:53:30 PM): 50 -> 75 -> 87 etc.
MYi Qwerty (11:53:46 PM): well, that might already be pretty high.
MYi Qwerty (11:53:54 PM): Gotta use the full range, yah.
BrendanAshton (11:54:10 PM): if you thought you had a 50/50 shot at dying or winning
MYi Qwerty (11:54:11 PM): I guess we'll figure out the details once we have more of the framework
BrendanAshton (11:54:21 PM): and knew you could improve those odds from 1 to 1 to 3 to 1 by waiting a day
BrendanAshton (11:54:23 PM): wouldn't you? :-)
MYi Qwerty (11:54:33 PM): Oh, oh, I see
BrendanAshton (11:54:49 PM): that means they likely "campaign" day 2 or 3
BrendanAshton (11:54:57 PM): don't want to wait too long and get vigged
BrendanAshton (11:55:04 PM): but saving it for at least day 2 is the smart move
BrendanAshton (11:55:06 PM): from their viewpoint
BrendanAshton (11:55:12 PM): day 3 is likely
BrendanAshton (11:55:28 PM): cause they think "hey, I can survive two days probably, and I'll very likely make the roll then"
MYi Qwerty (11:55:36 PM): Hmm.
MYi Qwerty (11:55:57 PM): Well, I'm just concerned that their 'sync' will make them want to use their abilities for the village before exploding
BrendanAshton (11:55:59 PM): fluffwise, no matter how good their sync, they always fail when the vote lands on them
BrendanAshton (11:56:03 PM): and activate the SK role
BrendanAshton (11:56:17 PM): no, I'm talking about giving them different powers
BrendanAshton (11:56:22 PM): they have a very defined goal as the VI phase
MYi Qwerty (11:56:25 PM): Yeah, that'd do it
BrendanAshton (11:56:29 PM): they are single minded on their goal
BrendanAshton (11:56:34 PM): they don't care about tracing others
MYi Qwerty (11:56:35 PM): If their powers are severely limited
BrendanAshton (11:56:43 PM): they are simply wishing to end their meatspace existence of misery
MYi Qwerty (11:56:51 PM): such that in most skill trees they can still only perform the basics
BrendanAshton (11:56:52 PM): and merge, becoming a permanent part of cyberspace
BrendanAshton (11:56:54 PM): and well
MYi Qwerty (11:56:54 PM): despite a high sync
BrendanAshton (11:56:57 PM): they go fucking insane doing this
BrendanAshton (11:57:01 PM): and go on a rampage
BrendanAshton (11:57:08 PM): requiring the "vote kill" to feed on
MYi Qwerty (11:57:21 PM): I hear ya
BrendanAshton (11:57:30 PM): they won't have a choice I say
BrendanAshton (11:57:38 PM): they will always focus on increasing their sync
MYi Qwerty (11:57:38 PM): (starting to learn the terminology, here!)
BrendanAshton (11:57:42 PM): instead of performing other tasks
MYi Qwerty (11:57:57 PM): Mmm, railroading.
BrendanAshton (11:58:06 PM): it hedges our bets towards epic shenanigans hehe
BrendanAshton (11:58:14 PM): and the most fun for the role getter
MYi Qwerty (12:00:43 AM): Alright, so: power categories.
MYi Qwerty (12:01:29 AM): all kinds of informational powers, vote hacking powers, kill powers, and defenses for each of them...
BrendanAshton (12:01:35 AM): let me sort out better terms for those, although the idea behind them is what I'm going for
BrendanAshton (12:01:44 AM): hacking is a bad term cause everything is hacking
BrendanAshton (12:01:51 AM): I am looking for manip type things
BrendanAshton (12:01:54 AM): vote erasures etc.
BrendanAshton (12:01:57 AM): would be that category
MYi Qwerty (12:02:01 AM): Terminology will need to be set up carefully, I agree
BrendanAshton (12:02:10 AM): countermeasures is in
BrendanAshton (12:02:20 AM): guards/traps
BrendanAshton (12:02:21 AM): etc.
MYi Qwerty (12:02:28 AM): Yeah, I'm not so good with the computer-speak
BrendanAshton (12:02:57 AM): trace
BrendanAshton (12:03:02 AM): hrm
BrendanAshton (12:03:11 AM): what kind of powers do we expect specifically?
BrendanAshton (12:03:17 AM): that we would need to categorize
MYi Qwerty (12:03:55 AM): infect?
BrendanAshton (12:04:07 AM): Viral
MYi Qwerty (12:04:07 AM): re-route (bus drive)?
MYi Qwerty (12:04:36 AM): part of it is how narrow or broad we want each 'power' to capture
BrendanAshton (12:04:44 AM): yeah
BrendanAshton (12:04:49 AM): I don't want anemic categories
BrendanAshton (12:04:52 AM): thinking probably four or five
MYi Qwerty (12:05:01 AM): Though I guess a number of the more specific powers will be special-exclusive
BrendanAshton (12:05:06 AM): Viral could be infection/busdrivering
MYi Qwerty (12:05:06 AM): so those would be okay
BrendanAshton (12:05:19 AM): Countermeasures is guarding/null
MYi Qwerty (12:05:37 AM): So four or five general categories, with specific skills that are special/mafia-exclusive?
BrendanAshton (12:05:38 AM): Trace (trying to think of a more general term) would be seering/info
BrendanAshton (12:05:42 AM): yes
BrendanAshton (12:05:55 AM): mafia will have different program pool altogether
BrendanAshton (12:05:57 AM): same categories
BrendanAshton (12:06:04 AM): but different programs
BrendanAshton (12:06:13 AM): specials, they will just have higher tiers likely
MYi Qwerty (12:06:53 AM): well, trace/countermeasures/viral covers the big three of seer/guard/vigilante
BrendanAshton (12:07:04 AM): Spoofing
MYi Qwerty (12:08:26 AM): spoofing could be a sub-power...
BrendanAshton (12:08:27 AM): Countermeasures, Sniffing, Spoofing, Viral
BrendanAshton (12:08:55 AM): spoofing could be powers that counter sniffing, fake votes, etc.
MYi Qwerty (12:09:13 AM): I think three major categories encapsulating the 'big three' could be good, with other powers taking sub-spots within those three.
BrendanAshton (12:09:30 AM): hrm
BrendanAshton (12:09:48 AM): how would they interact, other than effectively making 6 categories?
MYi Qwerty (12:10:15 AM): Though I don't know how broad that would make each one...
MYi Qwerty (12:10:25 AM): I don't really know...
BrendanAshton (12:10:35 AM): what do you think about those four?
BrendanAshton (12:10:42 AM): cause I'm trying to break them down into skillsets logically
BrendanAshton (12:10:47 AM): rather than strictly mafia roles
BrendanAshton (12:11:00 AM): they will fit but there's other things we can have in here to balance them
BrendanAshton (12:11:07 AM): for example, sniffing will have a lot of powers
BrendanAshton (12:11:14 AM): because we want people not getting the whole picture in one shot etc.
BrendanAshton (12:11:23 AM): bus drivering is ... bus drivering
BrendanAshton (12:11:29 AM): it's a full effect if it succeeds
BrendanAshton (12:11:37 AM): most will be full besides seer and vig
BrendanAshton (12:12:29 AM): it's quasi faction in that the mafia will also be using the same powers as the village
BrendanAshton (12:12:34 AM): they will use sniffing to find specials
BrendanAshton (12:12:46 AM): so it's a smaller tougher faction versus the larger hehe
BrendanAshton (12:12:57 AM): still mafia based, not a faction, but on the metagame level it kinda is
MYi Qwerty (12:14:12 AM): So, let's just list out the four categories and see if they look reasonable.
BrendanAshton (12:14:20 AM): yeah, go with those for now
MYi Qwerty (12:14:25 AM): Countermeasures (guards/nulls)
BrendanAshton (12:14:27 AM): and we'll fit things in
BrendanAshton (12:14:30 AM): adjust later
MYi Qwerty (12:14:33 AM): Sniffing (seers/information)
BrendanAshton (12:15:01 AM): Spoofing (manip/nulls)
MYi Qwerty (12:15:01 AM): Viral (vigilante/misdirection)
BrendanAshton (12:15:21 AM): countermeasures nulls may be more appropriately called traps
MYi Qwerty (12:15:37 AM): Er, something like that. Names aren't important to me
MYi Qwerty (12:15:40 AM):
BrendanAshton (12:15:53 AM): just so it's clearer what "nulls vs nulls" is
BrendanAshton (12:15:54 AM): hehe
MYi Qwerty (12:16:39 AM): Right, right. I understand, but I don't know the right terms
MYi Qwerty (12:18:34 AM): Heh, I'm thinking about the interface already.
MYi Qwerty (12:19:04 AM): State of the art 9-bit color (512 different colors).
MYi Qwerty (12:19:22 AM): Or maybe 12-bit color (4,096).
BrendanAshton (12:19:22 AM): hahaha
MYi Qwerty (12:19:37 AM): That's a charming palette nobody uses.
BrendanAshton (12:19:51 AM): hrm
BrendanAshton (12:20:01 AM): yeah, we'll just need to figure out how to balance difficulties
BrendanAshton (12:20:13 AM): because we want all villagers to be able to pick a category and have something to use
BrendanAshton (12:20:24 AM): but some are a little too much with the obvious powers
BrendanAshton (12:20:26 AM): Viral etc.
BrendanAshton (12:20:33 AM): we'll need to pad out the tiers so to speak
MYi Qwerty (12:20:45 AM): Yeah, viral powers are gonna cost a LOT of sync to use
MYi Qwerty (12:20:56 AM): (gah, still talking about cost as if it was point values)
MYi Qwerty (12:21:38 AM): Should we have enhancers/synchronization as a category?
BrendanAshton (12:21:57 AM): buff/debuffs in general?
BrendanAshton (12:22:08 AM): maybe thats some of what we should be padding the four cats with
BrendanAshton (12:22:13 AM): spread em around
MYi Qwerty (12:22:20 AM): Well, 'debuffs' are a lot of the viral category
BrendanAshton (12:22:26 AM): yeah, more thinking buffs
MYi Qwerty (12:22:30 AM): but 'buffs' don't really fit in anywhere yet
BrendanAshton (12:22:38 AM): then it's, do I perform an action, or work with someone else?
MYi Qwerty (12:22:41 AM): since they're kind of different from 'countermeasure'
BrendanAshton (12:22:44 AM): so it makes sense to allow most categories
BrendanAshton (12:22:45 AM): a buff
BrendanAshton (12:33:11 AM): I'm thinking we should do starting programs like FE items
BrendanAshton (12:33:16 AM): you pick your "class"
BrendanAshton (12:33:21 AM): you have certain weapon categories
BrendanAshton (12:33:34 AM): you get a "weapon" rolled from the base tier
BrendanAshton (12:33:39 AM): some people got a higher tier bonus
BrendanAshton (12:33:58 AM): so the same idea, we have a few programs at each tier at least and they randomly get them
BrendanAshton (12:34:20 AM): makes it a little more variant than villagers choosing a type and then just using the best one of the bunch and all doing the same one
BrendanAshton (12:34:33 AM): because if they all get everything, we can't populate nearly as much of the lower tier
BrendanAshton (12:34:52 AM): programs make sense that you have to HAVE them to use them anyways
BrendanAshton (12:35:10 AM): maybe programs could be obtained, from other players and otherwise
BrendanAshton (12:35:59 AM): a Clone program in a higher Spoofing tier!
BrendanAshton (12:36:00 AM): etc.
MYi Qwerty (12:37:13 AM): So people will choose from one of the four categories and get a random bonus in the one they choose to start the game?
BrendanAshton (12:37:27 AM): all players have a library
BrendanAshton (12:37:31 AM): their inventory
BrendanAshton (12:37:41 AM): programs are randomed for starting library
BrendanAshton (12:37:55 AM): so instead of "all villager Spoofers do X"
BrendanAshton (12:37:59 AM): we have control and variation
MYi Qwerty (12:38:11 AM): Ah, but they're guaranteed a program from the category they choose - a limited amount of control over their role.
BrendanAshton (12:38:12 AM): the purely straight up based on chance/skill will be too meh
BrendanAshton (12:38:22 AM): cause if we limit them enough so that not everyone has too much
BrendanAshton (12:38:27 AM): then most powers will be too unreliable
BrendanAshton (12:38:29 AM): etc.
BrendanAshton (12:38:37 AM): and yes, exactly
BrendanAshton (12:38:40 AM): they pick a category
BrendanAshton (12:38:43 AM): thats one of their programs
BrendanAshton (12:38:53 AM): maybe a villager starts with an RNG program from their speciality
BrendanAshton (12:38:57 AM): and an RNG first tier program
MYi Qwerty (12:39:45 AM): I see, I see. That'll work.
MYi Qwerty (12:39:57 AM): Encourages people to try and seek others out for synergy
BrendanAshton (12:40:02 AM): exactly
BrendanAshton (12:40:13 AM): the flat rate access wouldn't do that well
BrendanAshton (1:03:36 AM): alright
BrendanAshton (1:03:38 AM): I'm heading to bed
BrendanAshton (1:03:43 AM): post the log? :-)
MYi Qwerty (1:03:49 AM): Yeah, I can do that
BrendanAshton (1:03:54 AM): thanks
BrendanAshton (1:04:01 AM): guess dune didn't make it! haha
ATTENTION (10:28:03 PM): Buddy Chat session .
ATTENTION (10:28:07 PM): Buddy Chat session .
BrendanAshton (10:28:08 PM) has entered the room.
blazingdunedain (10:28:08 PM) has entered the room.
MYi Qwerty (10:28:08 PM) has entered the room.
ATTENTION (10:28:08 PM): Buddy Chat session initiated.
MYi Qwerty (10:28:14 PM): Whoa.
BrendanAshton (10:28:16 PM): alright
BrendanAshton (10:28:18 PM): WE NEED A NAME
BrendanAshton (10:28:29 PM): hrrrm, guess should bring dune up to speed
blazingdunedain (10:28:33 PM): lol
MYi Qwerty (10:28:40 PM): I'll let you do that while I finish preparing my meal
BrendanAshton (10:28:43 PM): basically it's a cyberpunk theme
BrendanAshton (10:28:44 PM): sure go nuts
BrendanAshton (10:28:55 PM): generic mishmash of infidel's whim
BrendanAshton (10:29:05 PM): all players have the capacity for working with cyberspace
BrendanAshton (10:29:09 PM): the setting will mainly be that
BrendanAshton (10:29:22 PM): the mechanics will work with respect to real time
BrendanAshton (10:29:32 PM): instant seers, vigs, traps, and more
blazingdunedain (10:29:39 PM): nice
BrendanAshton (10:29:39 PM): the trick is there are windows
BrendanAshton (10:29:41 PM): for example
BrendanAshton (10:29:45 PM): I might make my action
BrendanAshton (10:29:52 PM): to put out a trap from 8pm to 10pm
BrendanAshton (10:30:06 PM): someone using a certain action during that time may get tracked
BrendanAshton (10:30:08 PM): etc.
BrendanAshton (10:30:21 PM): information gleaned is instant and can be acted on
BrendanAshton (10:30:32 PM): there will be day close still and resolving then
BrendanAshton (10:30:40 PM): but play will occur throughout the day
BrendanAshton (10:30:44 PM): and not realy on actually BEING online at the time
BrendanAshton (10:30:49 PM): rely*
BrendanAshton (10:31:02 PM): you could do a lot still even if you can't be in the "right timezone"
BrendanAshton (10:31:28 PM): oh, and from this point on you're sworn to secrecy!
blazingdunedain (10:31:36 PM): well it seems like there is an advantage to that
blazingdunedain (10:31:38 PM): and of cource
blazingdunedain (10:31:41 PM): *course
BrendanAshton (10:32:32 PM): so yeah
BrendanAshton (10:32:36 PM): we need a name!
BrendanAshton (10:32:45 PM): so that blarney can update the OP and also add a hosting forum
blazingdunedain (10:33:08 PM): hmmmmm
BrendanAshton (10:33:17 PM): there will be the iconic megacorps, free thinkers / hackers, baddies etc.
BrendanAshton (10:33:37 PM): high tech and low life, no fantasy trappings ala shadowrun
BrendanAshton (10:33:47 PM): fluff and goals will be based around cyberspace turf war sorta
blazingdunedain (10:34:05 PM): phallaspace turf wars
blazingdunedain (10:34:08 PM):
BrendanAshton (10:35:47 PM): horrible
BrendanAshton (10:35:48 PM): you're fired
blazingdunedain (10:35:51 PM): I know
MYi Qwerty (10:35:54 PM): BOO GET OFF THE STAGE
BrendanAshton (10:35:57 PM): haha
MYi Qwerty (10:35:59 PM): -_-;;
blazingdunedain (10:36:01 PM): lol
BrendanAshton (10:36:07 PM): I think blarney is on the right path
BrendanAshton (10:36:13 PM): with the edgy/extreme type name
BrendanAshton (10:36:22 PM): european loaned 80s cyberpunk style
BrendanAshton (10:36:43 PM): PHALLEKTICA or such
MYi Qwerty (10:37:06 PM): The other suggestion was to pull a nonsense 6-word latin phrase that has the acronym PHALLA
blazingdunedain (10:37:15 PM): lol
BrendanAshton (10:37:17 PM): oooo
BrendanAshton (10:37:22 PM): P.H.A.L.L.A.
BrendanAshton (10:37:23 PM): let me seee
BrendanAshton (10:37:51 PM): Personified Holographic Avatar -...
blazingdunedain (10:38:12 PM): Legend
MYi Qwerty (10:38:18 PM): Logical Labyrinth Assembly?
BrendanAshton (10:38:22 PM): working with that, thinking of an acronym that describes the "whole system"
BrendanAshton (10:38:26 PM): how the cyberspace works
blazingdunedain (10:38:38 PM): Algorithim at the end
BrendanAshton (10:38:48 PM): Architecture could also work
blazingdunedain (10:39:07 PM): true
BrendanAshton (10:39:18 PM): yeah, let's come up with a good one that fits PHALLA
BrendanAshton (10:39:24 PM): that describes "the matrix" of this world
MYi Qwerty (10:39:25 PM): We could try to shoehorn in some mythological names
MYi Qwerty (10:39:32 PM): like Lazarus Architecture
BrendanAshton (10:39:40 PM): well the direction I was going I was thinking technobabble
MYi Qwerty (10:39:41 PM): or Laplace Algorithm
BrendanAshton (10:39:51 PM): 80s style "make up a futuristic could-be-possible" name
BrendanAshton (10:40:04 PM): plugging in a random name is cheating ;D
BrendanAshton (10:40:11 PM): cause you don't have to justify it
blazingdunedain (10:40:31 PM): psh, name the big bad Lazarus
blazingdunedain (10:40:35 PM): and it's justified
blazingdunedain (10:40:36 PM):
BrendanAshton (10:40:37 PM): Lattice is a good L word
MYi Qwerty (10:40:37 PM): historical/mythological significance could justify it!
BrendanAshton (10:40:51 PM): that's the cheating that I mean! ;D
BrendanAshton (10:41:00 PM): LASERRRRRRR
BrendanAshton (10:41:01 PM): lol
blazingdunedain (10:41:04 PM): lol
MYi Qwerty (10:41:07 PM): hahaha
BrendanAshton (10:41:17 PM): totally 80s cyberpunk
blazingdunedain (10:41:26 PM): needs a z tho
BrendanAshton (10:41:34 PM): very much so
BrendanAshton (10:41:48 PM): Laser Lattice Array
BrendanAshton (10:41:50 PM): lololololol
blazingdunedain (10:41:54 PM): hahahaha
MYi Qwerty (10:41:56 PM): hahahaha
BrendanAshton (10:41:57 PM): the worst part
BrendanAshton (10:42:01 PM): is that that actually makes sense
BrendanAshton (10:42:04 PM): for "virtual space"
BrendanAshton (10:42:06 PM): D:
MYi Qwerty (10:42:19 PM): Lattice Array is so...
MYi Qwerty (10:42:29 PM): *shrug*
BrendanAshton (10:42:31 PM): not compatible yeah
BrendanAshton (10:42:35 PM): but still!
BrendanAshton (10:42:46 PM): along those lines is what I'm thinking
MYi Qwerty (10:44:39 PM): (man, I'm totally imagining a futuristic cyberpunk GiTS-esque anime right now. )
BrendanAshton (10:44:49 PM): (good!)
blazingdunedain (10:44:53 PM): lol
BrendanAshton (10:45:00 PM): thats part of the mishmash
BrendanAshton (10:45:13 PM): Laplacian Lattice Architecture
MYi Qwerty (10:45:59 PM): oho.
MYi Qwerty (10:46:09 PM): Howabout using a word like "Levity"
BrendanAshton (10:46:28 PM): how would it fit though?
blazingdunedain (10:46:31 PM): levity logic assembly?
BrendanAshton (10:46:41 PM): or am I misunderstanding the word
MYi Qwerty (10:46:50 PM): I think it means 'able to be changed'?
BrendanAshton (10:46:53 PM): this is SERIOUS BUSINESS SYSTEM
MYi Qwerty (10:47:05 PM): not as in "lighthearted" kind of levity
BrendanAshton (10:47:09 PM): oh
BrendanAshton (10:47:15 PM): I only know it as not serious
MYi Qwerty (10:47:22 PM): Though it could be easily misunderstood
blazingdunedain (10:47:30 PM): lie to the players in the game name
blazingdunedain (10:47:32 PM): classy
BrendanAshton (10:47:34 PM): haha
blazingdunedain (10:47:48 PM): you thought this was light hearted?
BrendanAshton (10:47:53 PM): "Levity Architecture: You die in cyberspace, you die in real life!"
BrendanAshton (10:47:54 PM): D:
blazingdunedain (10:48:01 PM): fuck you, this is cyberphalla
MYi Qwerty (10:48:11 PM): It's like the MATRIX
BrendanAshton (10:48:18 PM): this IS the matrix
BrendanAshton (10:48:25 PM): which is why the name should be "serious"
BrendanAshton (10:48:29 PM): because it's pretentious in design
BrendanAshton (10:48:34 PM): and spoiled by hackers
blazingdunedain (10:48:34 PM): lol
BrendanAshton (10:48:38 PM): know what I mean?
BrendanAshton (10:48:49 PM): it's something that gets soiled
MYi Qwerty (10:49:02 PM): Lunar Lupine Assembly
MYi Qwerty (10:49:08 PM): ... it's powered by werewolves.
BrendanAshton (10:49:09 PM): TAKING THIS BABY TO THE MOON
BrendanAshton (10:49:20 PM): totally driving the bus the wrong direction MrB
BrendanAshton (10:49:21 PM): :-D
MYi Qwerty (10:49:27 PM): *honk honk*
blazingdunedain (10:49:27 PM): cyberpunk werewolves
BrendanAshton (10:49:29 PM): hahahah
BrendanAshton (10:49:39 PM): oh god, stop /crty
BrendanAshton (10:49:41 PM): /cry
blazingdunedain (10:49:42 PM): when you
blazingdunedain (10:49:47 PM): re online
blazingdunedain (10:49:52 PM): and it's the full moon
blazingdunedain (10:49:57 PM): D:
BrendanAshton (10:50:07 PM): I kinda like Laplacian, I may steal that bit Blarney
BrendanAshton (10:50:19 PM): I'm sure we can make that work with something for the first three...
BrendanAshton (10:50:30 PM): maybe even a PHA/LLA
BrendanAshton (10:50:47 PM): Personalized Holographic Avatar / Laplacian Lattice Architecture
BrendanAshton (10:50:56 PM): to reflect the nature of avatar and scene
MYi Qwerty (10:50:56 PM): Yeah, that's the best idea running so far...
BrendanAshton (10:50:58 PM): user and system
blazingdunedain (10:51:06 PM): oh nice
BrendanAshton (10:51:06 PM): hacker and IC
BrendanAshton (10:51:22 PM): any better suggestions? nows the time to ammend
blazingdunedain (10:51:23 PM): i'll brb
BrendanAshton (10:51:24 PM): or going with that hehe
blazingdunedain (10:51:33 PM): (go with it)
BrendanAshton (10:51:37 PM): MrB?
MYi Qwerty (10:51:41 PM): I'm good with it
BrendanAshton (10:51:44 PM): alright
BrendanAshton (10:51:46 PM): make it so!
BrendanAshton (10:51:49 PM): (engage)
blazingdunedain (10:54:35 PM): back
BrendanAshton (10:55:52 PM): alright
BrendanAshton (10:56:07 PM): we only have one role defined so far
BrendanAshton (10:56:14 PM): a village idiot twist
blazingdunedain (10:56:35 PM): this is the role people will scream about?
BrendanAshton (10:56:38 PM): yes
blazingdunedain (10:56:43 PM): :-D
BrendanAshton (10:56:49 PM): win condition
BrendanAshton (10:56:51 PM): be voted out
BrendanAshton (10:56:56 PM): no powers
BrendanAshton (10:57:03 PM): they just wish to become one with the system
BrendanAshton (10:57:06 PM): aka, be voted out
blazingdunedain (10:57:17 PM): what's the twist?
BrendanAshton (10:57:25 PM): the fluff for the vote will be nullification through the cyberspace mechanisms
BrendanAshton (10:57:30 PM): when they get voted out
BrendanAshton (10:57:32 PM): secret win condition!
BrendanAshton (10:57:35 PM): they become a monster
BrendanAshton (10:57:39 PM): a ghost in the machine
BrendanAshton (10:57:44 PM): they become vig immune
BrendanAshton (10:57:46 PM): get super boosted powers
BrendanAshton (10:57:49 PM): and win condition is as SK
BrendanAshton (10:57:54 PM): the catch
BrendanAshton (10:57:56 PM): if they don't win the vote
BrendanAshton (10:58:00 PM): they die
BrendanAshton (10:58:03 PM): from then on
BrendanAshton (10:58:18 PM): they are dependent on the system now
blazingdunedain (10:58:23 PM): and they don't know about the second win condition?
blazingdunedain (10:58:25 PM): ouch
BrendanAshton (10:58:28 PM): not until it happens
BrendanAshton (10:58:29 PM): :-D
BrendanAshton (10:58:36 PM): then they become a monster of an SK
blazingdunedain (10:58:37 PM): it's evil
blazingdunedain (10:58:42 PM): but doable
BrendanAshton (10:58:42 PM): that will have to fight and tear
BrendanAshton (10:58:45 PM): to keep going
BrendanAshton (10:58:51 PM): as I explained to MrB
BrendanAshton (10:58:55 PM): the best SK roles for the SK
BrendanAshton (10:58:57 PM): are ones that are super tough
BrendanAshton (10:59:03 PM): but oh so interesting
BrendanAshton (10:59:08 PM): they have fun win or lose
BrendanAshton (10:59:18 PM): and they should have to work their asses off
blazingdunedain (10:59:20 PM): yeah, I'll take SK over any role
BrendanAshton (10:59:22 PM): manipulating in order to win
BrendanAshton (10:59:36 PM): if you can win as the SK by just laying low
blazingdunedain (10:59:37 PM): in just about any decently constructed game
BrendanAshton (10:59:40 PM): and putting in your kill
BrendanAshton (10:59:42 PM): thats very meh
MYi Qwerty (10:59:49 PM): volcanichq.proboards.com/index.cgi Subforum is up. We can post the chat log in there, I guess
BrendanAshton (10:59:53 PM): give them powers and weaknesses :-D
BrendanAshton (10:59:56 PM): cool
BrendanAshton (11:00:03 PM): dune, have you ever registered on the HQ?
BrendanAshton (11:00:07 PM): do so so you can get access
blazingdunedain (11:00:17 PM): I'm already on there
BrendanAshton (11:00:20 PM): awesome :-D
blazingdunedain (11:00:21 PM): for phalla of the stick
BrendanAshton (11:00:27 PM): I see probably on a game with dacvin
BrendanAshton (11:00:31 PM): excellent, that was easy
blazingdunedain (11:01:24 PM): yup
MYi Qwerty (11:01:25 PM): Yeah, the village idiot --> serial killer idea is excellent,
MYi Qwerty (11:01:30 PM): though I think it's too tough
MYi Qwerty (11:01:43 PM): I'd much rather it be a survivor --> serial killer role
blazingdunedain (11:01:55 PM): it depends on how you play the VI
blazingdunedain (11:02:04 PM): take GtC in UA
blazingdunedain (11:02:14 PM): village idiot(with a twist)
blazingdunedain (11:02:42 PM): but he didn't try to get voted away
MYi Qwerty (11:03:12 PM): Actually, he did early on
MYi Qwerty (11:03:34 PM): He was very insistent on being voted out the first day.
blazingdunedain (11:03:46 PM): which meant he wouldn't
MYi Qwerty (11:03:51 PM): To which people said 'Village idiot ignore him'
BrendanAshton (11:04:28 PM): hehe
BrendanAshton (11:04:42 PM): yeah, the main issue is that if the village idiot manages to get voted out day 1
BrendanAshton (11:04:48 PM): then it will be harder for them to win
BrendanAshton (11:04:56 PM): the ideal situation is for them to last a couple days first
BrendanAshton (11:05:02 PM): but they won't know/try that necessarily
BrendanAshton (11:05:13 PM): so it's gonna be tough, unless we can find a way to encourage that
BrendanAshton (11:05:16 PM): we couldn't come up with anything yet
blazingdunedain (11:05:27 PM): still day one village idiots plays are pretty obvious
MYi Qwerty (11:05:28 PM): Yeah, that was my main issue/concern
Your message contains banned data and is not sent. Please modify your input and try again.
BrendanAshton (11:05:54 PM): I think the odds of it playing out in a way that at least gives them a chance
BrendanAshton (11:05:56 PM): is likely
BrendanAshton (11:06:07 PM): getting voted out day 1
BrendanAshton (11:06:09 PM): has a bonus
BrendanAshton (11:06:13 PM): they are assured a chance of winning
blazingdunedain (11:06:15 PM): yeah, it's a role that takes a lot of luck
BrendanAshton (11:06:19 PM): as opposed to getting voted out midgame
BrendanAshton (11:06:24 PM): but maybe getting vigged before then etc.
blazingdunedain (11:06:35 PM): true
MYi Qwerty (11:06:46 PM): Maybe some power accumulation mechanic
BrendanAshton (11:06:52 PM): basically, if they go for the VI fast and win it
BrendanAshton (11:06:54 PM): they'll go uber mode
MYi Qwerty (11:07:00 PM): where they gain latent powers that 'burst' when they get voted out
BrendanAshton (11:07:01 PM): and go out in a blaze of glory
BrendanAshton (11:07:03 PM): worst case scenario
MYi Qwerty (11:07:18 PM): Except that the latent powers don't end up with others... they end up within the player himself
MYi Qwerty (11:07:25 PM): contrary to expectations
blazingdunedain (11:07:27 PM): maybe they want to be voted out after a certain day
blazingdunedain (11:07:42 PM): put it in the win condition
BrendanAshton (11:07:45 PM): hrmmm
BrendanAshton (11:07:47 PM): maybe the VI fluff
blazingdunedain (11:07:52 PM): just to make their life a little easier
BrendanAshton (11:08:05 PM): is that they want to control the power of whatever exactly the vote is
BrendanAshton (11:08:08 PM): kinda as already mentioned
BrendanAshton (11:08:19 PM): but we propose it that it's not the END for them like a normal VI
BrendanAshton (11:08:32 PM): the powers gained are based on how long the game has gone on
BrendanAshton (11:08:34 PM): etc.
BrendanAshton (11:08:46 PM): they just don't know win condition and how much it will change them until they do
BrendanAshton (11:08:48 PM): ?
MYi Qwerty (11:09:23 PM): I think the 'latent powers' idea might work...?
BrendanAshton (11:09:33 PM): note that my mechanics mean that "that would be a shame if they were removed but it won't hurt the numbers" is prevalent still
BrendanAshton (11:09:36 PM): they have their kills
BrendanAshton (11:09:40 PM): but they only have kills / are around
BrendanAshton (11:09:42 PM): if they eat the vote
BrendanAshton (11:09:45 PM): nulling a kill guaranteed
BrendanAshton (11:09:52 PM): so it's kinda a redirecting of the vote
blazingdunedain (11:10:00 PM): oh nice
blazingdunedain (11:10:05 PM): I didn't even think of that
BrendanAshton (11:10:06 PM): so even if they die early, the numbers won't skew
BrendanAshton (11:10:19 PM): basically, this is what happens when they "awaken"
BrendanAshton (11:10:23 PM): they will be publicly outed
BrendanAshton (11:10:25 PM): OMG VOTE IMMUNE
BrendanAshton (11:10:28 PM): then they will get their PM
BrendanAshton (11:10:33 PM): OH FUCK IM EXPOSED AND A SK
BrendanAshton (11:10:37 PM): then they get their uber powers
BrendanAshton (11:10:39 PM): and the catch
BrendanAshton (11:10:42 PM): dance monkies, dance
blazingdunedain (11:10:47 PM): lol
BrendanAshton (11:10:50 PM): that is the funnest SK role
MYi Qwerty (11:10:56 PM): Mmm, monkeys
BrendanAshton (11:11:13 PM): I had a blast manipulating the fuck out of three equal factions
BrendanAshton (11:11:14 PM): as Lu Bu
BrendanAshton (11:11:30 PM): I had to tapdance like a mother fucker
BrendanAshton (11:11:40 PM): last SK role I designed also enjoyed it even though they lost
blazingdunedain (11:11:44 PM): lol, rolling hills
BrendanAshton (11:11:47 PM): I think this will work out
blazingdunedain (11:11:51 PM): I was partially vig immune
blazingdunedain (11:11:54 PM): outed sk
blazingdunedain (11:12:04 PM): and I managed to 'not lose'
BrendanAshton (11:12:08 PM): hehe
BrendanAshton (11:12:24 PM): surviving to win as the SK is not necessary imo
BrendanAshton (11:12:30 PM): it's a crazy role that can go any which way
BrendanAshton (11:12:35 PM): luck is always going to be involved
BrendanAshton (11:12:37 PM): make it great while it lasts
blazingdunedain (11:12:45 PM): lol
blazingdunedain (11:12:56 PM): I sold my kill to the village
BrendanAshton (11:13:00 PM): I don't think anyone has designed it to the vote in such a way though
BrendanAshton (11:13:04 PM): to ensure shenanigans basically
MYi Qwerty (11:13:12 PM): Shenanigans!
blazingdunedain (11:13:15 PM): yay
BrendanAshton (11:13:21 PM): alright
MYi Qwerty (11:13:21 PM): Yeah, it's a great idea
BrendanAshton (11:13:27 PM): so, we have to iron out general mechanics
BrendanAshton (11:13:32 PM): everyone will have options
BrendanAshton (11:13:39 PM): specials will have more options, better chances, etc.
BrendanAshton (11:13:54 PM): mafia type groups will have group powers (kills basically) on top
BrendanAshton (11:14:07 PM): it's basically going to be a game of organization and manipulation
BrendanAshton (11:14:13 PM): coordinating orders
BrendanAshton (11:14:16 PM): trying to piece things together
BrendanAshton (11:14:39 PM): some powers will work with windows
BrendanAshton (11:14:41 PM): where you can set traps
BrendanAshton (11:14:43 PM): or traces
BrendanAshton (11:14:47 PM): at certain time periods
BrendanAshton (11:14:51 PM): 1 hour, or 2 hours, wide
blazingdunedain (11:14:51 PM): right
BrendanAshton (11:14:54 PM): dunno
BrendanAshton (11:14:59 PM): whatever balances we can tweak
BrendanAshton (11:15:06 PM): then there are the active actions
BrendanAshton (11:15:11 PM): hacking, traps, etc.
BrendanAshton (11:15:18 PM): trying to gain information
BrendanAshton (11:15:22 PM): stop people
BrendanAshton (11:15:24 PM): attack people
MYi Qwerty (11:15:47 PM): Oh, how about variable powers. So someone with a 'vote null' could set up their power to null a specific person or all votes made in a certain half-hour period?
BrendanAshton (11:15:48 PM): most of it won't result in deaths
BrendanAshton (11:15:57 PM): we want deaths to be (relatively) deterministic, not random
BrendanAshton (11:16:05 PM): exactly MrB
BrendanAshton (11:16:09 PM): blackouts
BrendanAshton (11:16:11 PM): erasures
BrendanAshton (11:16:11 PM): etc.
BrendanAshton (11:16:14 PM): actually...
BrendanAshton (11:16:19 PM): the window of knocking out votes
BrendanAshton (11:16:20 PM): is brilliant
blazingdunedain (11:16:26 PM): yeah I like it
BrendanAshton (11:16:32 PM): because you can't completely control it
blazingdunedain (11:16:36 PM): maybe a powerspike
BrendanAshton (11:16:40 PM): you can place it trying to tweak it best
blazingdunedain (11:16:45 PM): votes are nulled for thirty minutes
BrendanAshton (11:16:45 PM): but you can't arbitrarily veto
MYi Qwerty (11:17:34 PM): Vote multipliers/dividers/subtracters/adders are the easiest to create
BrendanAshton (11:17:42 PM): I'll have to build vote tracking into the app
BrendanAshton (11:17:52 PM): so that we can have these powers worked with programmatically
BrendanAshton (11:18:02 PM): basically a spreadsheet like how we did PoRD updates
MYi Qwerty (11:18:05 PM): Yeah
BrendanAshton (11:18:09 PM): fields for the target and time of each persons vote
MYi Qwerty (11:18:23 PM): Action seers could work in pretty much the same way
BrendanAshton (11:18:24 PM): actually, I could have it harvest :-)
BrendanAshton (11:18:28 PM): and we could manually review/edit names
BrendanAshton (11:18:31 PM): to fit the official ones
BrendanAshton (11:18:33 PM): :-D
BrendanAshton (11:18:34 PM): yes
BrendanAshton (11:18:36 PM): we will do that
blazingdunedain (11:18:39 PM): lol
MYi Qwerty (11:18:46 PM): Action nulls, too!
BrendanAshton (11:19:00 PM): yep
BrendanAshton (11:19:04 PM): excellent
MYi Qwerty (11:19:10 PM): Yeah, we need to emphasize strict voting criteria to make counting easiest
BrendanAshton (11:19:14 PM): alright
BrendanAshton (11:19:19 PM): so everyone is getting the idea now yes?
blazingdunedain (11:19:25 PM): I think so
BrendanAshton (11:19:26 PM): we need mechanics to fit this kind of thing
MYi Qwerty (11:19:27 PM): make sure people format things correctly, etc.
BrendanAshton (11:19:33 PM): instant vigs? very rare/hard/risky
BrendanAshton (11:19:37 PM): instant seering of bits of data?
BrendanAshton (11:19:40 PM): much more common
blazingdunedain (11:19:46 PM): insta seering
BrendanAshton (11:19:46 PM): traps/IC that nullify?
BrendanAshton (11:19:48 PM): etc.
blazingdunedain (11:19:54 PM): maybe they get download updates
BrendanAshton (11:19:55 PM): yeah, you can garner bits of data throughout the day
blazingdunedain (11:20:00 PM): full info takes a day
BrendanAshton (11:20:01 PM): organized players can put together the pieces
MYi Qwerty (11:20:10 PM): Yeah, 'data transfer' seers
BrendanAshton (11:20:12 PM): yeah, that would be a "full seer"
BrendanAshton (11:20:20 PM): I'm talking the lower level village type stuff
blazingdunedain (11:20:24 PM): ah
BrendanAshton (11:20:27 PM): like "____ took an action"
BrendanAshton (11:20:34 PM): when you setup a trace on 8pm to 9pm
BrendanAshton (11:20:34 PM): etc.
BrendanAshton (11:20:55 PM): it should be balanced that one person acting alone cannot garner enough data easily
BrendanAshton (11:20:59 PM): to put together the story
BrendanAshton (11:21:05 PM): but multiples could possibly
blazingdunedain (11:21:05 PM): yeah
BrendanAshton (11:21:14 PM): different types of traces, etc.
BrendanAshton (11:21:23 PM): you're only allowed one window per day
BrendanAshton (11:21:32 PM): coordinate and you can get better info
BrendanAshton (11:21:41 PM): two traces tell you who took action, and on who!
BrendanAshton (11:21:44 PM): yadda yadda
blazingdunedain (11:21:48 PM): nice
MYi Qwerty (11:21:51 PM): Yep. I like the idea of power levels and skill mastery
BrendanAshton (11:22:04 PM): the village will be hackers, fluffwise
BrendanAshton (11:22:07 PM): it's cyberpunk after all
blazingdunedain (11:22:09 PM): maybe have it equiment based?
MYi Qwerty (11:22:10 PM): where there's a number of different skill trees representing different abilities
BrendanAshton (11:22:12 PM): suits could be the mafia
blazingdunedain (11:22:18 PM): since they're hackers
blazingdunedain (11:22:30 PM): you get a nicer PC
MYi Qwerty (11:22:34 PM): and each person needs skill mastery to use more than just the basic skills.
BrendanAshton (11:22:36 PM): brainbox*
BrendanAshton (11:22:37 PM): hehe
BrendanAshton (11:22:38 PM): yeah
BrendanAshton (11:22:55 PM): chips that enhance your reception/sync with PHA/LLA
BrendanAshton (11:22:59 PM): but also risk burnout
MYi Qwerty (11:23:00 PM): Each skill has two different properties: time window and group targeting
MYi Qwerty (11:23:33 PM): time window could be something like 30 min/1 hour/full day
MYi Qwerty (11:23:40 PM): and group could be 1/5/all players
BrendanAshton (11:23:41 PM): yep, I want there to be basically two types of actions
BrendanAshton (11:23:44 PM): things that cause an effect
BrendanAshton (11:23:48 PM): and others that are like casting out nets
BrendanAshton (11:24:07 PM): hrmm, a focus setting basically?
MYi Qwerty (11:24:11 PM): and depending on aptitude/equipment, different combinations are available
BrendanAshton (11:24:13 PM): get more detail on fewer targets
blazingdunedain (11:24:14 PM): nets would be low leveled village type stuff
MYi Qwerty (11:24:51 PM): certain abilities might also have a property of 'success'
BrendanAshton (11:24:52 PM): I had the idea of trying to enhance villager coordination with received info from the host system
BrendanAshton (11:24:57 PM): after seeing how poeple tried to organize in FE
BrendanAshton (11:25:02 PM): even though that part was rather basic and limited
BrendanAshton (11:25:06 PM): that is going to BE the game now
blazingdunedain (11:25:15 PM): nice
MYi Qwerty (11:25:18 PM): Actually, all skill trees could have that as a third property ' success probability'
BrendanAshton (11:25:28 PM): instead of something simple like "oh, so and so should be hurt, put one guy on that to finish him off"
MYi Qwerty (11:25:31 PM): so that you need more points to hack properly
BrendanAshton (11:25:35 PM): and "so and so attacked a player, lolmafia"
BrendanAshton (11:25:42 PM): something a little more involved and intrigue
blazingdunedain (11:25:53 PM): yeah
blazingdunedain (11:26:16 PM): should we have players be able to take somesort of real world actions?
BrendanAshton (11:26:29 PM): it would be mostly a matter of fluff likely
BrendanAshton (11:26:31 PM): but yes
BrendanAshton (11:26:43 PM): maybe the vig
BrendanAshton (11:26:47 PM): has to trace someone online
BrendanAshton (11:26:51 PM): and can kill them in meatspace
BrendanAshton (11:26:54 PM): only after they traced their location
BrendanAshton (11:26:55 PM): etc.
MYi Qwerty (11:26:56 PM): (ninjas!)
blazingdunedain (11:26:59 PM): lol
MYi Qwerty (11:27:23 PM): Yeah, that's a good idea for fluff
BrendanAshton (11:27:25 PM): effectively that's just fluff
BrendanAshton (11:27:48 PM): how do you see the focus mechanic working exactly then?
BrendanAshton (11:27:59 PM): let's say I have a target trace program running
BrendanAshton (11:28:08 PM): what do you think should happen on different settings?
MYi Qwerty (11:28:25 PM): Sliders/buttons for each option/property
BrendanAshton (11:28:32 PM): remember that the windows are slim so it takes quite a few people to catch everything
MYi Qwerty (11:28:50 PM): Certain amount of cost in points to set up each property at each level
BrendanAshton (11:29:06 PM): also, set limits on player counts don't scale as the game diminishes
MYi Qwerty (11:29:25 PM): and a limit of maximum value in each property based on individual ability
BrendanAshton (11:29:31 PM): so like if it was set to 1, I would randomly trace one player in the valid window?
BrendanAshton (11:29:41 PM): and there is no benefit to setting 1 other than I had no choice?
BrendanAshton (11:29:51 PM): if I could do more I would?
BrendanAshton (11:29:53 PM): skill based?
MYi Qwerty (11:29:55 PM): Random/Targeted could be another property
BrendanAshton (11:30:23 PM): how would targeted be possible
MYi Qwerty (11:31:01 PM): Huh?
BrendanAshton (11:31:09 PM): targeted in what way?
MYi Qwerty (11:31:11 PM): You can either choose to target a random person for free
MYi Qwerty (11:31:28 PM): or a specific person for cost
BrendanAshton (11:31:35 PM): but you're targeting windows
BrendanAshton (11:31:37 PM): not players
MYi Qwerty (11:31:37 PM): More specifics, rising exponential cost
BrendanAshton (11:31:42 PM): the thing we're talking right now
MYi Qwerty (11:31:45 PM): Same for players and windows
blazingdunedain (11:31:56 PM): so if you target a window
MYi Qwerty (11:31:59 PM): specific window (in half-hour increments) or random windows
BrendanAshton (11:31:59 PM): I am wanting more the meta value
BrendanAshton (11:32:01 PM): ala ALPHALLA
BrendanAshton (11:32:06 PM): of stalking / predicting your target
blazingdunedain (11:32:07 PM): you find out that someone took an action
BrendanAshton (11:32:14 PM): instead of being able to send in their name automatic
blazingdunedain (11:32:18 PM): or a player and find out who they targetted?
BrendanAshton (11:32:28 PM): well those would be different powers
BrendanAshton (11:32:32 PM): and of different types altogether
BrendanAshton (11:32:35 PM): if you target a person
BrendanAshton (11:32:38 PM): thats explicitly not a window
BrendanAshton (11:32:45 PM): a window, you don't know who is going to be there
BrendanAshton (11:32:47 PM): that's the point
blazingdunedain (11:32:50 PM): yeah
BrendanAshton (11:32:56 PM): you're trying to gather intel
BrendanAshton (11:33:01 PM): you could target windows
blazingdunedain (11:33:05 PM): i'm trying to figure out what mrB was suggesting
BrendanAshton (11:33:07 PM): trying to catch someone in particular
BrendanAshton (11:33:14 PM): predicting when they order, based on posts
BrendanAshton (11:33:16 PM): and timezone
BrendanAshton (11:33:16 PM): etc.
blazingdunedain (11:33:19 PM): with spending points
BrendanAshton (11:33:24 PM): which is the kind of meta thinking I would like to encourage :-)
BrendanAshton (11:33:33 PM): I want people to feel like hackers/sleuths
blazingdunedain (11:33:37 PM): lol
MYi Qwerty (11:33:40 PM): With spending 'points', you can distribute your powers.
BrendanAshton (11:33:46 PM): with a lot of unknowns and spotchy data
BrendanAshton (11:33:55 PM): that can be incriminating when held against other random data
MYi Qwerty (11:33:55 PM): Like, target one person for a long period, or a group of people for a short period
blazingdunedain (11:34:27 PM): ah
MYi Qwerty (11:34:28 PM): Most people will have low power in all aptitudes, and so will have to rely on each other to get some real intel
BrendanAshton (11:34:35 PM): are you talking about always choosing players AND window?
BrendanAshton (11:34:56 PM): cause I was talking you pick a window, and ALL that do whatever is being traced within that time are eligible
BrendanAshton (11:35:02 PM): there is no targeted player at all
MYi Qwerty (11:35:05 PM): Not necessary - one might be able to choose 'random' as an option
BrendanAshton (11:35:25 PM): this means a lot of expected traces towards vote close
MYi Qwerty (11:35:26 PM): Well, people who REALLY suck might only be able to look at one person for a period of time
BrendanAshton (11:35:29 PM): which means a lot more early day actions
BrendanAshton (11:35:34 PM): which means, expected of people
BrendanAshton (11:35:38 PM): so people will trap NOT vote close
BrendanAshton (11:35:41 PM): /psyduck
blazingdunedain (11:35:46 PM): hahhaha
BrendanAshton (11:35:57 PM): like I said, I'm hoping to blow minds
blazingdunedain (11:35:58 PM): there is going to be so much crazy meta going on
MYi Qwerty (11:36:06 PM): rather than one person for the whole day or everyone for a limited period
BrendanAshton (11:36:20 PM): and conveniently, not many individuals will have enough data on their own to "know" anything
BrendanAshton (11:36:26 PM): so they have to trust, PARANOIA TIME
MYi Qwerty (11:36:31 PM): If you think of it as a 2-D plane
BrendanAshton (11:36:38 PM): oh I get ya
MYi Qwerty (11:36:39 PM): the villagers have a small radius of power
BrendanAshton (11:36:45 PM): I just wasn't thinking of them being tied at all originally
MYi Qwerty (11:36:46 PM): and the specials have a large radius of power
BrendanAshton (11:36:52 PM): and not sure I want to combine them like that
MYi Qwerty (11:36:52 PM): with the axes of people and windows
BrendanAshton (11:37:04 PM): I like there being slice targets
BrendanAshton (11:37:05 PM): and trace targets
BrendanAshton (11:37:10 PM): (time window, versus player target)
MYi Qwerty (11:37:15 PM): You can also set that up
BrendanAshton (11:37:19 PM): you might have a trace program you can toss on someone
BrendanAshton (11:37:22 PM): fluff wise, it makes more sense
MYi Qwerty (11:37:26 PM): so that some people are more apt at one type
BrendanAshton (11:37:29 PM): than arbitrary axis that you can play with
blazingdunedain (11:37:30 PM): venn diagrams of village power
MYi Qwerty (11:37:33 PM): and others are more apt at the other type
BrendanAshton (11:37:34 PM): a special, sure
BrendanAshton (11:37:44 PM): but I am thinking of the "base" for villagers right now more
MYi Qwerty (11:37:47 PM): and the REAL WIZARDS can do both, with a wide range of customizability
BrendanAshton (11:37:48 PM): so that everything we build on top fits
BrendanAshton (11:37:51 PM): know what I mean?
MYi Qwerty (11:38:13 PM): I think I know what you mean, I just have a different idea of what 'base' means
BrendanAshton (11:38:25 PM): man, me and blarney have talked so much game theory design over the years on AIM........
BrendanAshton (11:38:29 PM): hahahaha
BrendanAshton (11:38:51 PM): "base" means just that, villager level power
BrendanAshton (11:39:00 PM): the combined power of collaborating villagers
MYi Qwerty (11:39:04 PM): I think so brain, but how are we going to get a plastic flamingo in that kind of size?
BrendanAshton (11:39:05 PM): so, things that are not reliable completely
BrendanAshton (11:39:09 PM): like nets and tracers
BrendanAshton (11:39:17 PM): hahahahaha :^:
blazingdunedain (11:39:38 PM): lol
MYi Qwerty (11:39:50 PM): Yeah, I'm thinking villagers just don't have much hacking skill
MYi Qwerty (11:40:05 PM): so you have a third 'axis' of 'skill success' perhaps?
BrendanAshton (11:40:22 PM): fluffwise, they are all hackers
BrendanAshton (11:40:26 PM): even doing this much is "serious"
BrendanAshton (11:40:33 PM): the system isn't trivial to manipulate like this
MYi Qwerty (11:40:34 PM): I'm still on the 'generalizability' kick here
BrendanAshton (11:40:38 PM): the real hardcore hackers are special
blazingdunedain (11:40:42 PM): it's cyberpunk
blazingdunedain (11:41:07 PM): most real hackers looks like pussies compared to these guys
BrendanAshton (11:41:19 PM): also, I like having simple/accessible choices for standard vanillas
MYi Qwerty (11:41:28 PM): I guess another comparison could be to the FF XII licence grid
BrendanAshton (11:41:30 PM): like "here's a tracer program that does ____, you can target someone with it"
BrendanAshton (11:41:38 PM): "here's what you may learn, it may not succeed"
MYi Qwerty (11:41:42 PM): most people don't have a lot of licences
BrendanAshton (11:41:49 PM): instead of giving them too much control where they get overwhelmed
MYi Qwerty (11:41:52 PM): which limits their options appropriately
BrendanAshton (11:42:20 PM): oh, I know what the core stat will be
BrendanAshton (11:42:22 PM): for power level
BrendanAshton (11:42:24 PM): sync ratio
MYi Qwerty (11:42:29 PM): yessss
BrendanAshton (11:42:30 PM): how well they jive with the system
blazingdunedain (11:42:37 PM): nice
BrendanAshton (11:42:39 PM): a special is a high sync ratio
BrendanAshton (11:42:41 PM): thats all
BrendanAshton (11:43:03 PM): oh man I will have fun narrating this
MYi Qwerty (11:43:19 PM): GIANT ROBOTS
blazingdunedain (11:43:28 PM): should we just have powers be basedon on sync ratios?
MYi Qwerty (11:43:28 PM): piloted by angsty teenagers
BrendanAshton (11:43:34 PM): GIANT ROBOTS, putting the PERSONALIZED in PHA
MYi Qwerty (11:43:50 PM): Yeah, powers based on sync ratios...
BrendanAshton (11:43:52 PM): sync ratio will come into play for everyone
BrendanAshton (11:43:59 PM): because all powers have a rate of success
MYi Qwerty (11:43:59 PM): well, sort of
BrendanAshton (11:44:25 PM): also, the options available will be increased, I guess in a tiered sort of way
MYi Qwerty (11:44:26 PM): I guess it depends on how much in terms of 'skill tree' and 'power scales' we want to get into
MYi Qwerty (11:44:31 PM): Yeah
blazingdunedain (11:44:32 PM): yeah
blazingdunedain (11:44:55 PM): should we give more powerful players access to lower level powers?
MYi Qwerty (11:44:59 PM): Yes
MYi Qwerty (11:45:09 PM): Lower-level powers will have higher success
MYi Qwerty (11:45:18 PM): when performed by a high-level player
BrendanAshton (11:45:28 PM): right
BrendanAshton (11:45:46 PM): it could be every power has a difficulty
BrendanAshton (11:45:55 PM): modified by sync ratio by some extent
BrendanAshton (11:46:01 PM): if your chance drops to 0% or below
BrendanAshton (11:46:04 PM): you don't even have it
blazingdunedain (11:46:09 PM): nice
BrendanAshton (11:46:10 PM): we could tier things to work out appropriately
MYi Qwerty (11:46:23 PM): Yep
BrendanAshton (11:46:23 PM): the big manips will be tough even for specials
MYi Qwerty (11:46:38 PM): And certain people will have aptitude towards certain powers
BrendanAshton (11:46:41 PM): I'm noticing a trend in my phallas
MYi Qwerty (11:46:42 PM): to make them easier to use
BrendanAshton (11:46:47 PM): they have a baseline for all players
BrendanAshton (11:46:51 PM): I don't really have vanillagers
BrendanAshton (11:46:59 PM): I usually apply the same rules to mafia
blazingdunedain (11:46:59 PM): they're boring
BrendanAshton (11:47:01 PM): as I do players
MYi Qwerty (11:47:04 PM): Heheh, we're rubbing off on each other
BrendanAshton (11:47:05 PM): such as PoRD
BrendanAshton (11:47:09 PM): heh
blazingdunedain (11:47:16 PM): I got a phonecall
blazingdunedain (11:47:20 PM): I might be back later
BrendanAshton (11:47:21 PM): np
blazingdunedain (11:47:22 PM): or crash
blazingdunedain (11:47:30 PM): depending on how long this takes
BrendanAshton (11:47:59 PM): alright
BrendanAshton (11:48:05 PM): so we should come up with mechanics
MYi Qwerty (11:48:06 PM): no worries, we should be able to post a log or something in the forum
BrendanAshton (11:48:08 PM): most of them "programs"
BrendanAshton (11:48:20 PM): break them down into (a) category and (b) difficulty
BrendanAshton (11:48:21 PM): ?
BrendanAshton (11:48:37 PM): hacking, datamining, etc.
BrendanAshton (11:48:41 PM): countermeasures
MYi Qwerty (11:48:50 PM): I see, yeah
BrendanAshton (11:49:02 PM): you can choose a category to excel at
BrendanAshton (11:49:11 PM): which gives you a mod to the difficulty
BrendanAshton (11:49:16 PM): so a villager
BrendanAshton (11:49:22 PM): will probably mainly just have tools for their specialty
BrendanAshton (11:49:27 PM): other things will practically be out of reach
BrendanAshton (11:49:37 PM): their choice brings the low tiers and maybe the middle
BrendanAshton (11:49:39 PM): into reach
BrendanAshton (11:49:46 PM): a special has higher stats in one or more areas
BrendanAshton (11:49:48 PM): and a higher sync ratio
BrendanAshton (11:49:51 PM): those are our metrics
BrendanAshton (11:49:55 PM): skill points in categories
BrendanAshton (11:49:57 PM): and a sync ratio
BrendanAshton (11:50:00 PM): base it around that
MYi Qwerty (11:50:07 PM): Yep, sounds good to me
BrendanAshton (11:50:18 PM): just need to work out some categories and skills
BrendanAshton (11:50:26 PM): then we can tweak difficulties into things fall into the right place
BrendanAshton (11:50:30 PM): for powers we want available
BrendanAshton (11:50:38 PM): sync ratio will be 0 to 100
BrendanAshton (11:50:47 PM): some villagers may be better than others
BrendanAshton (11:50:51 PM): it will be tiered and then RNGd
BrendanAshton (11:51:04 PM): maybe that's part of what we can do for the VI/SK role
BrendanAshton (11:51:05 PM): :-D
MYi Qwerty (11:51:06 PM): so, like 15...25 for the basic villager or something
BrendanAshton (11:51:12 PM): have it start off as a sync ratio thing
BrendanAshton (11:51:23 PM): make theirs grow a bit each day
MYi Qwerty (11:51:31 PM): SYNC: > 9000!!!!
BrendanAshton (11:51:41 PM): and have their goal be based on succeeding at the meld into the system
BrendanAshton (11:51:49 PM): d100 roll against their sync ratio
BrendanAshton (11:51:54 PM): then they'll be inclined to wait a day or two
BrendanAshton (11:51:55 PM): :-D
BrendanAshton (11:51:58 PM): and then BLAMMO
BrendanAshton (11:52:03 PM): blindsided
MYi Qwerty (11:52:21 PM): Well, d100 vs. 100 - sync ratio
BrendanAshton (11:52:27 PM): :^:
MYi Qwerty (11:52:32 PM): make it harder to improve
MYi Qwerty (11:52:35 PM): after a few days
MYi Qwerty (11:52:42 PM): to encourage takign the vote
BrendanAshton (11:52:52 PM): we could give them an action that increases their ratio
BrendanAshton (11:53:01 PM): and it just has diminishing returns
BrendanAshton (11:53:04 PM): you can't achieve 100
BrendanAshton (11:53:23 PM): have it halve the unsync
BrendanAshton (11:53:30 PM): 50 -> 75 -> 87 etc.
MYi Qwerty (11:53:46 PM): well, that might already be pretty high.
MYi Qwerty (11:53:54 PM): Gotta use the full range, yah.
BrendanAshton (11:54:10 PM): if you thought you had a 50/50 shot at dying or winning
MYi Qwerty (11:54:11 PM): I guess we'll figure out the details once we have more of the framework
BrendanAshton (11:54:21 PM): and knew you could improve those odds from 1 to 1 to 3 to 1 by waiting a day
BrendanAshton (11:54:23 PM): wouldn't you? :-)
MYi Qwerty (11:54:33 PM): Oh, oh, I see
BrendanAshton (11:54:49 PM): that means they likely "campaign" day 2 or 3
BrendanAshton (11:54:57 PM): don't want to wait too long and get vigged
BrendanAshton (11:55:04 PM): but saving it for at least day 2 is the smart move
BrendanAshton (11:55:06 PM): from their viewpoint
BrendanAshton (11:55:12 PM): day 3 is likely
BrendanAshton (11:55:28 PM): cause they think "hey, I can survive two days probably, and I'll very likely make the roll then"
MYi Qwerty (11:55:36 PM): Hmm.
MYi Qwerty (11:55:57 PM): Well, I'm just concerned that their 'sync' will make them want to use their abilities for the village before exploding
BrendanAshton (11:55:59 PM): fluffwise, no matter how good their sync, they always fail when the vote lands on them
BrendanAshton (11:56:03 PM): and activate the SK role
BrendanAshton (11:56:17 PM): no, I'm talking about giving them different powers
BrendanAshton (11:56:22 PM): they have a very defined goal as the VI phase
MYi Qwerty (11:56:25 PM): Yeah, that'd do it
BrendanAshton (11:56:29 PM): they are single minded on their goal
BrendanAshton (11:56:34 PM): they don't care about tracing others
MYi Qwerty (11:56:35 PM): If their powers are severely limited
BrendanAshton (11:56:43 PM): they are simply wishing to end their meatspace existence of misery
MYi Qwerty (11:56:51 PM): such that in most skill trees they can still only perform the basics
BrendanAshton (11:56:52 PM): and merge, becoming a permanent part of cyberspace
BrendanAshton (11:56:54 PM): and well
MYi Qwerty (11:56:54 PM): despite a high sync
BrendanAshton (11:56:57 PM): they go fucking insane doing this
BrendanAshton (11:57:01 PM): and go on a rampage
BrendanAshton (11:57:08 PM): requiring the "vote kill" to feed on
MYi Qwerty (11:57:21 PM): I hear ya
BrendanAshton (11:57:30 PM): they won't have a choice I say
BrendanAshton (11:57:38 PM): they will always focus on increasing their sync
MYi Qwerty (11:57:38 PM): (starting to learn the terminology, here!)
BrendanAshton (11:57:42 PM): instead of performing other tasks
MYi Qwerty (11:57:57 PM): Mmm, railroading.
BrendanAshton (11:58:06 PM): it hedges our bets towards epic shenanigans hehe
BrendanAshton (11:58:14 PM): and the most fun for the role getter
MYi Qwerty (12:00:43 AM): Alright, so: power categories.
MYi Qwerty (12:01:29 AM): all kinds of informational powers, vote hacking powers, kill powers, and defenses for each of them...
BrendanAshton (12:01:35 AM): let me sort out better terms for those, although the idea behind them is what I'm going for
BrendanAshton (12:01:44 AM): hacking is a bad term cause everything is hacking
BrendanAshton (12:01:51 AM): I am looking for manip type things
BrendanAshton (12:01:54 AM): vote erasures etc.
BrendanAshton (12:01:57 AM): would be that category
MYi Qwerty (12:02:01 AM): Terminology will need to be set up carefully, I agree
BrendanAshton (12:02:10 AM): countermeasures is in
BrendanAshton (12:02:20 AM): guards/traps
BrendanAshton (12:02:21 AM): etc.
MYi Qwerty (12:02:28 AM): Yeah, I'm not so good with the computer-speak
BrendanAshton (12:02:57 AM): trace
BrendanAshton (12:03:02 AM): hrm
BrendanAshton (12:03:11 AM): what kind of powers do we expect specifically?
BrendanAshton (12:03:17 AM): that we would need to categorize
MYi Qwerty (12:03:55 AM): infect?
BrendanAshton (12:04:07 AM): Viral
MYi Qwerty (12:04:07 AM): re-route (bus drive)?
MYi Qwerty (12:04:36 AM): part of it is how narrow or broad we want each 'power' to capture
BrendanAshton (12:04:44 AM): yeah
BrendanAshton (12:04:49 AM): I don't want anemic categories
BrendanAshton (12:04:52 AM): thinking probably four or five
MYi Qwerty (12:05:01 AM): Though I guess a number of the more specific powers will be special-exclusive
BrendanAshton (12:05:06 AM): Viral could be infection/busdrivering
MYi Qwerty (12:05:06 AM): so those would be okay
BrendanAshton (12:05:19 AM): Countermeasures is guarding/null
MYi Qwerty (12:05:37 AM): So four or five general categories, with specific skills that are special/mafia-exclusive?
BrendanAshton (12:05:38 AM): Trace (trying to think of a more general term) would be seering/info
BrendanAshton (12:05:42 AM): yes
BrendanAshton (12:05:55 AM): mafia will have different program pool altogether
BrendanAshton (12:05:57 AM): same categories
BrendanAshton (12:06:04 AM): but different programs
BrendanAshton (12:06:13 AM): specials, they will just have higher tiers likely
MYi Qwerty (12:06:53 AM): well, trace/countermeasures/viral covers the big three of seer/guard/vigilante
BrendanAshton (12:07:04 AM): Spoofing
MYi Qwerty (12:08:26 AM): spoofing could be a sub-power...
BrendanAshton (12:08:27 AM): Countermeasures, Sniffing, Spoofing, Viral
BrendanAshton (12:08:55 AM): spoofing could be powers that counter sniffing, fake votes, etc.
MYi Qwerty (12:09:13 AM): I think three major categories encapsulating the 'big three' could be good, with other powers taking sub-spots within those three.
BrendanAshton (12:09:30 AM): hrm
BrendanAshton (12:09:48 AM): how would they interact, other than effectively making 6 categories?
MYi Qwerty (12:10:15 AM): Though I don't know how broad that would make each one...
MYi Qwerty (12:10:25 AM): I don't really know...
BrendanAshton (12:10:35 AM): what do you think about those four?
BrendanAshton (12:10:42 AM): cause I'm trying to break them down into skillsets logically
BrendanAshton (12:10:47 AM): rather than strictly mafia roles
BrendanAshton (12:11:00 AM): they will fit but there's other things we can have in here to balance them
BrendanAshton (12:11:07 AM): for example, sniffing will have a lot of powers
BrendanAshton (12:11:14 AM): because we want people not getting the whole picture in one shot etc.
BrendanAshton (12:11:23 AM): bus drivering is ... bus drivering
BrendanAshton (12:11:29 AM): it's a full effect if it succeeds
BrendanAshton (12:11:37 AM): most will be full besides seer and vig
BrendanAshton (12:12:29 AM): it's quasi faction in that the mafia will also be using the same powers as the village
BrendanAshton (12:12:34 AM): they will use sniffing to find specials
BrendanAshton (12:12:46 AM): so it's a smaller tougher faction versus the larger hehe
BrendanAshton (12:12:57 AM): still mafia based, not a faction, but on the metagame level it kinda is
MYi Qwerty (12:14:12 AM): So, let's just list out the four categories and see if they look reasonable.
BrendanAshton (12:14:20 AM): yeah, go with those for now
MYi Qwerty (12:14:25 AM): Countermeasures (guards/nulls)
BrendanAshton (12:14:27 AM): and we'll fit things in
BrendanAshton (12:14:30 AM): adjust later
MYi Qwerty (12:14:33 AM): Sniffing (seers/information)
BrendanAshton (12:15:01 AM): Spoofing (manip/nulls)
MYi Qwerty (12:15:01 AM): Viral (vigilante/misdirection)
BrendanAshton (12:15:21 AM): countermeasures nulls may be more appropriately called traps
MYi Qwerty (12:15:37 AM): Er, something like that. Names aren't important to me
MYi Qwerty (12:15:40 AM):
BrendanAshton (12:15:53 AM): just so it's clearer what "nulls vs nulls" is
BrendanAshton (12:15:54 AM): hehe
MYi Qwerty (12:16:39 AM): Right, right. I understand, but I don't know the right terms
MYi Qwerty (12:18:34 AM): Heh, I'm thinking about the interface already.
MYi Qwerty (12:19:04 AM): State of the art 9-bit color (512 different colors).
MYi Qwerty (12:19:22 AM): Or maybe 12-bit color (4,096).
BrendanAshton (12:19:22 AM): hahaha
MYi Qwerty (12:19:37 AM): That's a charming palette nobody uses.
BrendanAshton (12:19:51 AM): hrm
BrendanAshton (12:20:01 AM): yeah, we'll just need to figure out how to balance difficulties
BrendanAshton (12:20:13 AM): because we want all villagers to be able to pick a category and have something to use
BrendanAshton (12:20:24 AM): but some are a little too much with the obvious powers
BrendanAshton (12:20:26 AM): Viral etc.
BrendanAshton (12:20:33 AM): we'll need to pad out the tiers so to speak
MYi Qwerty (12:20:45 AM): Yeah, viral powers are gonna cost a LOT of sync to use
MYi Qwerty (12:20:56 AM): (gah, still talking about cost as if it was point values)
MYi Qwerty (12:21:38 AM): Should we have enhancers/synchronization as a category?
BrendanAshton (12:21:57 AM): buff/debuffs in general?
BrendanAshton (12:22:08 AM): maybe thats some of what we should be padding the four cats with
BrendanAshton (12:22:13 AM): spread em around
MYi Qwerty (12:22:20 AM): Well, 'debuffs' are a lot of the viral category
BrendanAshton (12:22:26 AM): yeah, more thinking buffs
MYi Qwerty (12:22:30 AM): but 'buffs' don't really fit in anywhere yet
BrendanAshton (12:22:38 AM): then it's, do I perform an action, or work with someone else?
MYi Qwerty (12:22:41 AM): since they're kind of different from 'countermeasure'
BrendanAshton (12:22:44 AM): so it makes sense to allow most categories
BrendanAshton (12:22:45 AM): a buff
BrendanAshton (12:33:11 AM): I'm thinking we should do starting programs like FE items
BrendanAshton (12:33:16 AM): you pick your "class"
BrendanAshton (12:33:21 AM): you have certain weapon categories
BrendanAshton (12:33:34 AM): you get a "weapon" rolled from the base tier
BrendanAshton (12:33:39 AM): some people got a higher tier bonus
BrendanAshton (12:33:58 AM): so the same idea, we have a few programs at each tier at least and they randomly get them
BrendanAshton (12:34:20 AM): makes it a little more variant than villagers choosing a type and then just using the best one of the bunch and all doing the same one
BrendanAshton (12:34:33 AM): because if they all get everything, we can't populate nearly as much of the lower tier
BrendanAshton (12:34:52 AM): programs make sense that you have to HAVE them to use them anyways
BrendanAshton (12:35:10 AM): maybe programs could be obtained, from other players and otherwise
BrendanAshton (12:35:59 AM): a Clone program in a higher Spoofing tier!
BrendanAshton (12:36:00 AM): etc.
MYi Qwerty (12:37:13 AM): So people will choose from one of the four categories and get a random bonus in the one they choose to start the game?
BrendanAshton (12:37:27 AM): all players have a library
BrendanAshton (12:37:31 AM): their inventory
BrendanAshton (12:37:41 AM): programs are randomed for starting library
BrendanAshton (12:37:55 AM): so instead of "all villager Spoofers do X"
BrendanAshton (12:37:59 AM): we have control and variation
MYi Qwerty (12:38:11 AM): Ah, but they're guaranteed a program from the category they choose - a limited amount of control over their role.
BrendanAshton (12:38:12 AM): the purely straight up based on chance/skill will be too meh
BrendanAshton (12:38:22 AM): cause if we limit them enough so that not everyone has too much
BrendanAshton (12:38:27 AM): then most powers will be too unreliable
BrendanAshton (12:38:29 AM): etc.
BrendanAshton (12:38:37 AM): and yes, exactly
BrendanAshton (12:38:40 AM): they pick a category
BrendanAshton (12:38:43 AM): thats one of their programs
BrendanAshton (12:38:53 AM): maybe a villager starts with an RNG program from their speciality
BrendanAshton (12:38:57 AM): and an RNG first tier program
MYi Qwerty (12:39:45 AM): I see, I see. That'll work.
MYi Qwerty (12:39:57 AM): Encourages people to try and seek others out for synergy
BrendanAshton (12:40:02 AM): exactly
BrendanAshton (12:40:13 AM): the flat rate access wouldn't do that well
BrendanAshton (1:03:36 AM): alright
BrendanAshton (1:03:38 AM): I'm heading to bed
BrendanAshton (1:03:43 AM): post the log? :-)
MYi Qwerty (1:03:49 AM): Yeah, I can do that
BrendanAshton (1:03:54 AM): thanks
BrendanAshton (1:04:01 AM): guess dune didn't make it! haha